Home > Bankruptcy and Federal Indictment - Giudices, Giudices' Federal Indictment, Money Fraud Charges > The Giudice Bankruptcy and Federal Indictment (with Links to Official Documents)

The Giudice Bankruptcy and Federal Indictment (with Links to Official Documents)

October 19, 2013

tre luxury 2

Joe was well-aware of his wife’s burning urge to shop, but says the expenses were manageable during cash-flush times. “For the nine years we’ve been married, she had a credit-card bill, and I would pay it. She might spend $10,000 on stupid things, but I didn’t question it – and it always got paid.” – People magazine, June 28, 2010

According to the U.S. government, the Giudices failed to file federal tax returns from 2004 through 2008; lied on bank loan applications from 2001 through 2008 (and because they used U.S. mail and wire communications to deliver the loan documents, they also committed mail and wire fraud); and lied in their petition to the U.S. bankruptcy court filed on October 29, 2009 (and lied in later amendments).

On their chapter 7 bankruptcy petition (see below for a summary of the debt they wanted to discharge), a U.S. bankruptcy trustee accused them of making false statements as to income, assets and expenses, including failure to disclose Teresa’s Bravo salary increase for season 2, income from TG Fabulicious sales and website sales, payments from personal and magazine appearances, and income from real estate holdings.

In December 2010, approximately one year after Teresa and Joe Giudice filed bankruptcy, the US Trustee overseeing their case accused Teresa and Joe of lying to the court by knowingly concealing various assets, which were legally required to be included in their bankruptcy paperwork… Specifically, the Trustee accused Teresa and Joe of knowingly concealing the following assets: three cars, a boat, the Giudice family pizzeria, three homes and several other investment properties, dozens of bank accounts, and Teresa’s pending book deal and business interests in TG Fabulicious LLC and 1576 Maple Avenue Associates LLC. The revenues generated by Teresa’s book, Skinny Italian, alone exceeded $280,000. [Source]

Maple Avenue Associates LLC, which Joe didn’t disclose as an asset in his bankruptcy petition filed in October 2009, is the pizzeria and laundromat with the apartments above which was featured on the show in season 3. Joe paid $575,000 cash for the investment property in April 2008, at the time season 1 was taping. Joe’s attorney, James Kridel, told People magazine in July 2010 that the building was in Joe’s father’s name and therefore should never have been considered an asset at the time of the bankruptcy filing, but that is a lie: the building was in Joe’s business name, 1576 Maple Avenue Associates LLC, which has Giuseppe Giudice listed as the Principal.

The following is a report of the all-cash transaction for the sale of 1576 Maple Avenue in Hillside, NJ. in the May 9 – 22, 2008 issue of the Mid Atlantic Real Estate Journal (page 4).

The Kislak Company, Inc. completes $575,000 sale of 1576 Maple Ave. in Hillside

HILLSIDE, NJ – The Kislak Company, Inc., the dominant multi-family and retail investment sales firm in the tri-state region, recently completed the $575,000 sale of 1576 Maple Ave., a 10-unit, mixed-use building in Hillside. Sales Associate Jeff Squires represented the seller, a private individual, and VP Joni Sweetwood represented the buyer, a private individual, in this all-cash transaction.

“This transaction was a unique opportunity for The Kislak Co.,” said Squires. “Our firm generally completes investment sales transactions for income-producing properties. However, at the time of the sale, 1576 Maple Ave. was gutted down to the studs and was essentially a vacant brick shell.

The buyer is completely rebuilding the inside of the property, from installing sheetrock and electrical systems to new plumbing and kitchens before the property can be leased and turned into a value-added opportunity.”

1576 Maple Ave. is a two-story, mixed-use building that is comprised of five retail units and five apartments and includes a lot that will be paved for parking. Many future tenants await the completion of this project located in the center of town.

Attorney Fred Roughgarden represented the buyer in this transaction. Attorney Michael Rasso represented the seller in this transaction.

Joe and Teresa withdrew their bankruptcy filing two years later, in late 2011, after the bankruptcy trustee alleged that they had committed fraud on their petitions:

Given the chance to respond to the Trustee’s allegations, Joe Giudice had a change of heart about his bankruptcy. When questioned about hiding the family’s assets, Joe chose to invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination; and, soon thereafter, he settled his dispute with the Trustee. [Source]

According to the consent order, Teresa agrees to waive discharge of her debts, and acknowledges that she wishes to resolve the Trustee’s proceedings against her “without the need for further inquiry or litigation, and without her making any further admissions.” [Source]

The following is a summary of Joe’s and Teresa’s outstanding debt per their October 29, 2009, chapter 7 bankruptcy filing.

Joe Giudice’s Income for the Years He Did Not File Tax Returns (from the Federal Indictment):

2004 – $243,919
2005 – $323,481
2006 – $26,194
2007 – $377,423
2008 – $25,442

Primary Residence at 6 Indian Lane, Towaco, NJ (Amount Owed – $1.72 million):

  • 1st mortgage of $1.72 million with Community Bank of Bergen County (in Joe’s and Teresa’s name), September 2008 (this was initially a construction loan for $1.7 million in February/March 2008 that was converted to a $1.72 million mortgage loan) – the Giudices were making their mortgage payments and the bank had not begun any foreclosure procedures

Shore House at 49 Sylvia Lane, Stafford, NJ (Amount Owed – $550,266):

  • 1st mortgage of $266,365 with America’s Servicing Co. (in Teresa’s name)
  • 2nd mortgage of $33,903 with Ocwen Loan Servicing (in Teresa’s name)
  • 3rd mortgage of $249,998 with Wachovia (in Teresa’s name)

Other Property at 68 Pine Brook Rd, Lincoln Park, NJ (Amount Owed – $314,162):

  • 1st mortgage of $122,125 with America’s Servicing Co. (in Teresa’s name)
  • 2nd mortgage of $24,962 with Amtrust Bank (in Teresa’s name)
  • 3rd mortgage of $167,075 with Wachovia (in Teresa’s name)

East Orange, NJ Apartment Buildings (Amount Owed with Co-Debtor, Joe Mastropole – $5.12 million):

  • 168-170 South Clifton Street, $1.723 million with Wachovia (in the name of 168-170 South Clifton Street Associates LLC), May 2007
  • 17 Webster Place, East Orange, NJ, $2.1 million with Wachovia (in the name of 17 Webster Place Associates LLC), December 2007
  • 6 Glenwood Avenue, East Orange, NJ, $1.3 million with Dime Savings Bank (in the name of 6 Glenwood Avenue Associates LLC), July 2005 and May 2006

Credit Cards, Building Materials and Services/Repairs:

  • $83,255 credit cards (Bloomingdale’s, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, HSBC, Citi Cards, Home Depot)
  • $92,936 building services
  • $91,266 building materials

Other Debt:

  • $11,769 fertility treatments
  • $2,239 phone bill
  • $840 utility bill

Legal Fees and Judgments:

When tabloids covered the Giudice’s bankruptcy in 2010, reports said they were almost $11 million in debt, however, the line items in the bankruptcy document suggest it was $8.7 million, with $282,305 of that being unsecured debt (credit cards, utilities, home repairs/improvements, services, etc.), excluding legal fees and judgments. In their bankruptcy petition, the mortgages on the apartment buildings were qualified as unsecured because they were all in foreclosure, and the money from cash-out refinances of the apartment buildings appears to have been spent on their mansion and other properties and expenses rather than improving and maintaining the buildings:

$5,123,103 mortgages on 3 apartment buildings (in foreclosure)
$2,585,377 mortgages on 3 residential homes
$722,046 judgments and legal fees (includes $300,000 already paid to former business partner)
$282,305 unsecured debt (credit cards, building materials/services, etc.)
$8,712,831 Total Debt Itemized in Bankruptcy Petition

The Giudices should have worked with their banks to short-sale apartments buildings if those buildings were the real reason for their financial hardship. And why not use the financial windfall from Bravo to pay off some of the debt? The Giudices continued to pay the mortgage on their primary residence, so they were not planning to let their home go into foreclosure, so why not work out short-sale deals with the banks on their investment properties? Did they not want to use new money to pay off old debt? Perhaps they had the mindset that everyone was doing it (filing bankruptcy), so why not them?

The Giudices should not have filed for bankruptcy protection – it is because they did and then allegedly committed fraud on their petitions that the feds scrutinized their finances, which led to the federal indictment on money fraud. What a terrible decision on their part!

Giudice’s Chapter 7 Bankruptcy Filing, October 29, 2009:

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/voluntary-petition-for-chapter-7-bankrup-54212//

First Amendment to Giudice’s Bankruptcy Petition, December 17, 2009:

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/amendments-to-bankruptcy-petition-in-re-54627/

Second Amendment to Giudice’s Bankruptcy Petition, January 8, 2010:

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/amendments-to-bankruptcy-petition-in-re-54869/

Summary of the U.S. Government’s Case Against the Giudices for Bankruptcy Fraud, September 2, 2010:

http://mnconsumerattorney.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/giudice_ust_cplt_obj_to_discharge1.pdf

Roberta A. DeAngelis, the U.S. Trustee overseeing the Giudice bankruptcy petition, filed a complaint objecting to discharge. DeAngelis requested Judge Morris Stern not grant the couple’s chapter 7 bankruptcy petition because of the many “falsehoods” and omissions in their filing.

Complaint Objecting to the Discharge of the Giudice’s Debt, Submitted by John Sywilok, June 30, 2010:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/desperate-housewife

Application by Chapter 7 Trustee to Proceed to Public Sale (Auction of Home Furnishings), August 15, 2010:

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/TeresaGiudiceDocs.pdf

Denial of Discharge of Debt and Consent Order Waiving Discharge of Teresa Giudice, December 5, 2011:

http://cdn2.getoutofdebt.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/118132468022.pdf

Mastropole v. Giudice, Opinion Letter by Bankruptcy Judge Morris Stern, January 3, 2011:

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20BCO%2020110103227

Mastropole v. Giudice, Opinion Letter Summary, January 3, 2011:

http://www.meislik.com/cases/giudice/

Federal Indictment Against the Giudices for Money Fraud, July 29, 2013:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/files/pdffiles/2013/Guidice,%20Giuseppe%20and%20Teresa%20Indictment.pdf

In their bankruptcy petition, the Giudices listed Teresa’s RHONJ season 1 salary of $3,333 per month and claimed she was unemployed, even though she was taping season 2 at the time and her monthly salary was $9,167 or $110,000 yearly; and they listed Joe’s monthly income as $3,250, plus $10,000 per month in assistance from family members (see image below) – they said they “reasonably did not anticipate any increase or decrease in income within the year following their filing.”

summary 5

UPDATE 11/18/2013: On November 18, 2013, the federal government added two more counts to the 39-count indictment against the Giudices which was handed down on July 29, 2013. According to the indictment, from 2001 to 2008 the Giudices fraudulently obtained $5 million from mortgages, withdrawals from home equity lines of credit, and construction loans and failed to file tax returns for about $1 million in income from 2004 through 2008 (they are charged with mail and wire fraud, bank fraud, bankruptcy fraud and loan application fraud). According to U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman:

“The two additional counts stem from a $361,250 mortgage loan that Teresa Giudice obtained in July 2005. In the course of obtaining the loan, she and Giuseppe Giudice prepared a loan application which falsely stated that Teresa Giudice was employed as a realtor and that she had a monthly salary of $15,000. Teresa Giudice was not employed outside the home at the time.”

The following is a summary by Jezebel of the federal indictment handed down on July 29, 2013 (this is different from the bankruptcy petition filed on October 29, 2009).

December 21, 2001: In an attempt to get a mortgage loan with HomeComings, authorities allege Teresa submitted fraudulent tax forms (W2s) and paystubs and stated on the application that she was employed as an executive assistant making $3,750 a month with Modern Era Investment Corp. The U.S. Attorney’s Office claims she was never employed, yet she received a mortgage loan of $121,500.

June 2004: On another loan application, authorities allege Teresa falsely stated she was a self-employed owner for seven years of G&G Stucco earning $14,750 a month and, in return, she received a loan from Eastern American of $20,200.

March 2005: On two more loan applications, authorities allege Teresa falsely stated she was a self-employed owner of G&G Stucco with a monthly salary of $12,100 and, in return, on March 18, 2005, she received home loans from Alterna of $141,550.

November 2005: On another loan application, authorities allege both Joe and Teresa submitted fraudulent tax returns and, in return, on January 20, 2006, the couple received a construction loan from Park Avenue of $800,000.

December 2006: Joe allegedly applied for a loan from Wachovia using fraudulent tax returns and, after being approved, took out $251,360 in a home equity line of credit between 2006 and 2009.

February 2007: Joe applied for another loan with Wachovia based on false tax returns and W-2 forms and, after being approved, took out $170,252 from their home equity line of credit.

February 2008: Teresa and Joe used fraudulent W-2 forms to obtain a construction loan through Sterling for $1.7 million.

July 2008: Teresa and Joe falsely stated on a loan application with Community Bank of Bergen County (CBBC) that they had a private bank account containing a whopping $500,000 and submitted fraudulent tax returns and W-2 forms – they were subsequently approved for a mortgage loan of $1.72 million on September 12, 2008, which was dispersed on September 19, 2008.

So between 2006 – 2008, Joe and Teresa received close to $4 million dollars in loans, and then in October 2009 they filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy to discharge the debt. To make matters worse, they allegedly concealed assets from the bankruptcy court so that those assets couldn’t be used to pay off lenders and other creditors.

Over the two-year process of their bankruptcy, they failed to disclose the several LLCs (limited liability companies) they had formed in early 2009. They also failed to disclose Teresa’s true income from The Real Housewives of New Jersey and paid personal and magazine appearances, as well as income from a rental property. They also failed to disclose their anticipated increase in income, coming from deals she’d struck—before filing for bankruptcy—for her second season of the Bravo show and her first cookbook that were both paid out after the bankruptcy filing.

(It didn’t help matters that Teresa went on a $60,000 spending spree after filing for bankruptcy.)

To top it off, Joe didn’t pay income tax for five years in a row.

So what does this mean, in terms of actual jail time?

A criminal defense attorney that doesn’t represent either Teresa or Joe spoke anonymously about the case to the website Reality Tea:

The fact that a judge demanded they pay equal amounts bail does not look good!

…The Feds only indict when they have a rock solid case – the recent statistic is that 90% of federal indictments end in convictions. And unlike state courts, the federal court uses a sentencing guideline system. In working with a federal probation officer, the officer will determine what ‘criminal history level’ the person is at and what the ‘offense level’ is – from that, and from the sentencing guidelines, a sentence is proposed by the probation officer to the Judge…

Despite Teresa’s likely attempt to get probation and a fine, this attorney believes it is inevitable that they will both serve some jail time in federal prison.

When it comes to the sentencing guideline system in federal cases, Joe might be fucked. He was convicted of a DUI in 2010 and is currently awaiting trial for allegedly stealing his brother’s identity to fraudulently obtain a license from the DMV. He already owned up to committing fraud in 2007 when he forged the names of his business partner and notary public on mortgage documents.

Joe’s documented history of forgery might work in Teresa’s favor, though, if he says he forged her name on all of the falsified documents. But of course, that’s only if he’s willing to take the rap and if the government actually believes that Teresa had her head in the sand during their seven-year mortgage spree.

Interestingly, Bravo might be dragged into this whole mess, according to New Jersey-based attorney Darren Del Sardo, because the network is not a news agency and therefore doesn’t have First Amendment privileges:

Employees filming for Bravo can certainly be called as witnesses to establish that the Giudices were perhaps making large purchases in cash during the time of the bankruptcy. The network could also be called as a witness to support an increase of anticipated income paid by Bravo to Teresa that was not disclosed in her bankruptcy filing.

indictment 2

The following is the timeline of events for Joe’s legal issues with the New Jersey DMV:

  1. In January 2010, Joe was charged with driving under the influence – he was later convicted and his license was suspended for seven months.
  2. In June 2010, Joe allegedly using his brother’s identity at the DMV to get a driver’s license.
  3. In September 2010, Joe got caught driving with a suspended license and spent 10 days in jail.
  4. In March 2011, authorities arrested Joe at his home and charged him with identity theft and forgery for allegedly obtaining a fake license using his brother’s ID (it was Joe’s brother Pete who was pulled over by Lincoln Park police – when the officer ran Pete’s information through a dashboard computer, the search produced Joe’s photograph).
  5. In December 2011, Joe was indicted by the state for identity theft and forgery.

The following is a timeline from WetPaint:

January 14, 2010: After crashing into a pole at nearly 2 a.m., Joe was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, reckless driving, careless driving and failure to maintain a traffic lane in Montville Township, NJ. He was taken to the hospital. After his release from the medical facility, he was then turned over to the Clifton Police Department, and it was discovered that there were outstanding warrants for his arrest for city ordinance violations.

September 2010: Joe was sentenced to ten days in jail for driving with a suspended license.

February 23, 2011: Joe and Caroline Manzo’s sons, Albie and Christopher, along with others, were detained in the Dominican Republic following a bar brawl. No charges were ultimately filed, but it did delay Joe, Teresa, and the Manzo boys’ return to New Jersey.

March 25, 2011: Joe was arrested for fraudulently obtaining a state driver’s license and now faces charges including wrongful identity use and impersonation. He refused to take a plea deal and could face up to ten years in prison if convicted off the charges. A new hearing is set for October 2013.

July 29, 2013: Joe and Teresa were indicted on 39 counts of fraud. The couple is accused of exaggerating their income in order to receive larger loans, which is something that was allegedly done even before RHoNJ debuted in 2009. They also are accused of failing to disclose all of their income when initially filing for bankruptcy later that year. The indictment includes charges of conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud, bank fraud, making false statements on loan applications, and bankruptcy fraud. If Teresa and Joe are found guilty of all charges, they could each face more than 50 years in prison. They were each released on $500k bond. Their federal trial for money fraud has been postponed until February 24, 2014.

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  1. October 19, 2013 at 7:39 PM

    I need someone to explain all this to me… like I’m a 12 year old….

    • October 19, 2013 at 8:38 PM

      im right there with you sackem!!! all i see is a bunch more $$ than i will see in my lifetime. i find joes tax returns interesting…one year he makes over $300K then next year 2006 its not even $27,000 and then year after that back over $300K??? then year after that 2008 back below $26,000

      • October 19, 2013 at 11:16 PM

        *the income for the years returns not filed/ 2004 thru 2008= the roller coaster pattern is what i was talking about

        • GPM
          October 20, 2013 at 3:40 PM

          Just wanted to pipe in here — I think that’s the income the DOJ is alleging Joe earned in the indictment.

          The numbers probably come from a reconstruction of how much taxable income they think he made based on things like what they spent, deposits to bank accounts, etc. Reconstructions such as these are not always accurate because money that goes through a bank account isn’t always taxable, i.e., life insurance proceeds, loan proceeds or gifts from family members, for example, although there are a number of others. The assumption is that the money is taxable and it’s up to the taxpayer to rebut that. The amount of jail time one does related to tax crime is directly based on how much money you didn’t report so it might behoove Joe to hire a forensic accountant to testify on his behalf as it may be that he did not earn enough income in those years to require him to file.

          How could that be, you might say!?! If you’re a glutton for tax-related punishment and/or are truly interested in knowing more about this, you might want to read the article about Mark Zuckerberg entitled “Zuck Never Has to Pay Taxes Again” at http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/opinion/mccaffery-zuckerberg-taxes/.

          The highlight of the article is probably the paragraph that says, “The truly rich do not have to pay any tax once they have their fortunes in hand. They can follow the simple tax planning advice to buy/borrow/die: Buy assets that appreciate in value without producing cash (like shares of Internet stocks), borrow to finance lifestyle, and die to pass on a “stepped up” basis to heirs wherein the tax gain miraculously disappears.”

          Joe and Teresa Giudice are obviously far from rich BUT this illustrates how, if they were living not on cash income but on borrowed cash — loan proceeds whose origin was real estate loans attributable to property they’d put up as collateral, for example, and given the loan document charges, that seems at least potentially possible, or loans and/or gifts they received from family members or others that are similarly nontaxable, it’s possible that they, like Zuck, could have lived for the few years in question without incurring an income tax liability or the need to file a tax return.

          I still need to spend some time looking at all the documents Fame did such a fabulous job of accumulating in order to say much more, but it did strike me as interesting that they filed for Chapter 7 with years of allegedly unpaid tax debt. The idea of Chapter 7 is to give the debtor a “fresh start,” but tax debt in the circumstances described by the DOJ with respect to Joe isn’t dischargeable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. As a result, filing for Chapter 7 doesn’t really give the debtor a “fresh start” at all because they’re still left having to deal with the IRS.

          At the very least, it might argue for a Chapter 11 bankruptcy instead of Chapter 7. Chapter 11 allows debtors up to 5 years to pay some or even, in some cases, all their debts, including unpaid income taxes, and this might have served their circumstances better. In my quick review, I noticed that in their Chapter 7 petition they proposed surrendering their shore house — which they were ultimately able to keep when they withdrew their bankruptcy petition — and, as Fame noted, one does wonder if they couldn’t have worked out short sales on some of the real estate debt.

          It appears the law firm they used in connection with the bankruptcy is a general practice firm that does a little bit of everything. (Martindale Hubbell online provides one review wherein the reviewer gave the firm 1 out of 5 stars for a family law engagement.) One cannot say for sure, of course, and hindsight is always 20-20, but it did occur to me to wonder if the law firm had sufficient expertise in the bankruptcy area to advise them competently. JMHO

          • GPM
            October 20, 2013 at 3:58 PM

            Oops — I said Chapter 11 but I meant to say Chapter 13.

            • Honnie Badger
              October 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM

              Don’t worry. I read the whole book! 🙂 (don’t mind me, I’m being a total nutjob today!)

          • October 20, 2013 at 4:12 PM

            I got sick and became disabled and subsequently got divorced back around 1998-1999. We had quite a few assets which were liquidated. I had turned over what I sold our house for into a new house for myself. There was other stuff involved too but I not going to post TMI. Long story short… between a time when I wanted to try to go back to work and was turned down by the doctors and by my employers, I had to file for social security, and there was a time I had no income so I didn’t file a return. This was around the same time I was divorcing, buying/selling house(s), etc. In 2006 I got a tax bill (for tax year 2000 which is when everything I explained above happened) in the mail for $125,000 (rounded off)!! I FREAKED! Of course I had to retain an attorney who sent me to a CPA and between them they got it all worked out. I ended up owing under $5,000 for monies that I didn’t even know I owed from monies involved in distributing marital assets which I assumed I had taken care of in1999. Obviously the IRS didn’t take into account what was going on in my personal life. That the money I got for one house I turned over into another one (at the time you had to pay capital gains tax when you sold a house), etc. etc.

            So $125,000 tax bill became less than $5,000 and it wasn’t through any kind of fancy accounting of anything of the kind. It was what I ACTUALLY owed. I’ll tell you, when I got that IRS notice in the mail stating I owed them $125,000 it scared the crap out of me. My boyfriend assured me I didn’t owe that but I was just so upset I couldn’t think straight. The day I talked to the accountant was one of the happiest days of my life… lol Well not really, but in a way it was… it took a HUGE weight off my shoulders, I was sooo relieved.

            I wasn’t the tax evader I thought I must have been when I got the notice. Going to jail did cross my mind… I certainly didn’t have an extra $125,000 laying around. Things aren’t always what they seem.

            • sittingcoffin
              October 20, 2013 at 5:42 PM

              The IRS has laws on laws for its laws, and Obamacare is about to give them a SWAT team. Imagine what would happen with that and a 125,000 bill.

    • October 20, 2013 at 11:24 AM

      I’ll explain it to you from someone who knows nothing about math, banking, loans or the construction business. Joe Guidice fucked up by bringing himself to the attention of the Feds because his bankruptcy filing was so fucked up that they decided to take a harder look at him. And they discovered a host of charges they could throw at him and his wife and make them stick. Their lawyers can get rid of at least half if not 3/4 of the charges because the bankruptcy court, the banks, his accountants, the IRS, have all collectively screwed up just as much as he did. If he was a decent man, and I hope he is, he will plead guilty to income tax evasion and perhaps a few other things and allow himself to be sentenced to a Federal penitentiary for five years. He does not deserve more than that. Add another year or two for the license fraud, which is absurd because every illegal alien in Miami has a fake license, and don’t give all of the lawyers the money. I know he truly believes he is innocent and it will be a bitter pill to swallow, but it is better than taking this innocent plea all the way to the end at which time he will have to do some time anyway. Who cares if he is deported. Teresa and the girls can join him in Italy when he gets out. Although I doubt they will deport him because we have illegal immigrants who commit drug crimes, rape, fraud, and armed robbery here in Miami and they don’t get deported. If he doesn’t take the fall for this, he is not protecting his family. Get 75% of the charges dropped and cop to the rest if they will drop Teresa from the complaint. So she can stay with the girls. And if Teresa’s lawyer isn’t giving her some seriously good advice like divorce, or testifying against him than he is an idiot.

      • sittingcoffin
        October 20, 2013 at 5:46 PM

        Its hard to say what will happen to a working man that can bring in a middle class level of income based on what happens to illegal immigrants accused of “worse” crimes. To the IRS (and the Federal Reserve, the international bank that owns us), financial crimes are the absolute worst of the worst. They might choose to make examples of such an up and coming couple that is still more working class than elite and famous.

      • October 28, 2013 at 8:00 AM

        I don’t think it works like that. First of all, it wasn’t “his” bankruptcy, it was “their” bankruptcy. Teresa signed those documents as well. Secondly, the very fact that she has been charged in every count (save for the IRS charges), tells you that the Feds believe she is as guilty as he is. One person cannot just offer to do someone else’s time, unless he/they try to sell it as it was all Juicy’s fault, and Teresa knew about nothing. They will know more when they actually see the Discovery from the Prosecutor. If they have strong evidence to support the charges that Teresa was a big part of this (handwriting analysis, sworn testimony of bank officials, video from bank surveillance), etc., it would be hard for either of them to say she had nothing to do with it. I don’t like seeing anyone separated from their children, but if she did these things, she needs to pay for it in the same manner that anyone else would. In this case, that would be prison time.

  2. LifeIsGood
    October 19, 2013 at 8:18 PM

    When I first saw the (relatively) small amount of unsecured debt, I also thought that they could have easily gotten that under control in 3-5 years. Unsecured debt can be negotiated down in a lot of cases. But when you look at the amount of judgments and legal fees, it becomes a little trickier.

    I agree with you, Fame. The should have looked at another way out. Short sales on the commercial property would have been a good place to start. They needed to dramatically downsize quickly. Perhaps if T were never cast on the show, that decision would have been easier.

    But what amazes me is that the bankruptcy filing passed muster with Juicy’s attorney’s! They should have examined all of his documents, including tax returns, with a fine tooth comb before filing. The lawyer who prepared this filing should be disbarred.

    • runtheball
      October 19, 2013 at 8:30 PM

      Although he was general partner and ultimately the one left holding the bag on the commercial property, I don’t that he could have done that without Mastropole. That is likely how that forgery case came to be. Mastropole had no incentive to get rid of those properties.

      • LifeIsGood
        October 19, 2013 at 9:20 PM

        I forgot that he had a partner. Assuming they incorporated and the buildings were owned by the corporation, how did the buildings become part of Juicy’s personal bankruptcy? This is confusing! We need a lawyer to break it down for us!

        • sittingcoffin
          October 20, 2013 at 5:48 PM

          Making law so confusing that only lawyers can understand it is part of the financial worlds plan. This whole thing is just a mess.

    • Anonymous
      October 19, 2013 at 8:56 PM

      I completely agree. They clearly need a new lawyer. It seems to me like all of this could have been avoided if they had the right lawyer giving them sound advice.

    • OldNJLady
      October 19, 2013 at 9:04 PM

      When they first filled bankruptcy many banks were not up to speed on short sales. They were extremely hard to get approved the first few years after the crash and it could take 6 to 9 months to get the approval. It wasn’t until 2011 that most banks had a way to stream line the process. Some banks never got a handle on short sales and it is impossible to get one of approved with them

  3. OldNJLady
    October 19, 2013 at 8:44 PM

    I am noticing a lot a little issues. As a real estate broker for over 20 years there are just so many red flags for me.

    1st. If Juicy did not file taxes for 4 years how did they get any loans? One of the first things a lender will ask for are your taxes. The last thing the closing attorney will make you sign and a form for the IRS when they report the closing, interest and giving the IRS the right to pull or question the tax reports used to obtain the loan(s). If the feds are going after Teresa and Juicy for the incorrect information on loans are they going after the mortgage lenders that did not get all the supporting documents in the file before they approved the loans?
    2. The first thing a bankrupt attorney usually does is pull your credit reports, car titles, home titles and anything else in your name. How did they miss 3 cars and a boat if they were registered to Juicy or Teresa?
    3. I noticed that you are reporting that Juicy had paid his former partner over $300k at the time of filing. SG has been horrible about reporting that Juicy never paid a time to him.
    4. What most people don’t know is that when you fill bankruptcy they MUST include every debt you have. You can not pick and choose. That is another reason attorneys are supposed to run your credit reports and tile reports.
    5 Most of the debt looks like it was tied up with Juicy’s business. The apartment buildings, 3rd home and probably most of the building materials had to do with Juicy’s business. Even the high phone bill could be partly due to a business lines.
    6. If Juicy and Teresa did in fact work out a short sale agreement with the banks most of the time the banks agree to accept the short sale price or deed in lieu of foreclosure with the agreement that the debt was settled in full. So how are they now going back and filing charges of debt that has already been settled.
    7. While I don’t understand why Juicy did not file his taxes for 4 years I also don’t understand how the IRS did not discover it until 2011. Something is off with that. I made a lot of money 2001-2003 and because the taxes were filed in my husbands SS# first and the 1099’s were in my name the IRS was after me in 2004 claiming that I didn’t file and owed them money. Thankfully, I was able to get it straighten out quick but they didn’t wait 8 years to start looking for me.

    Where Juicy made the biggest mistake was using his personal credit to start and run the business and mixed the corporate and personal parts of the finances. When the real estate and building market crashed in 2008 Juicy was no longer able to keep his business afloat. If he had rolled everything over into a corporate name and keep his personal homes and car separate he could have easily declared bankruptcy with his business and walked away. One down side of bankruptcy with a builder at least in my state is that he would never get a license to build again.

    Personally, I think that a lot of the charges are trumped up and will be reduced or dropped. I really feel that Kim G and Monica started the fire and supplied most of the documents and information that lead to the charges. I also believe that Melissa was directly giving information to both Kim G and Monica that help them in the fight to take down Teresa and Juicy.

    • October 19, 2013 at 10:04 PM

      Thank you! I’ve been saying this was trumped up before I even read the charges and then I was like pfft, no one’s going to jail for 50 years over this. I totally believe someone gave info to the Feds and it was blown out of proportion. Granted, I graduated law school almost a decade ago and I never practiced so this is just my opinion. They were doing something everyone else was doing and the banks turned a blind eye. There was no grand conspiracy with Joe Guidice as a criminal mastermind so I’m happy to see your assessment. Mind you, what he did wasn’t superlegal but the way people go on about it… So tired of people being freaked out by the number of charges and not understanding them.

    • October 19, 2013 at 11:41 PM

      The indictment says the Giudices created fake W-2s and fake tax returns when applying for the mortgage loans. And it says that Teresa lied about being employed and submitted fake W-2 forms and fake paystubs for jobs and income she never had – she says that her signature was forged on the documents used to obtain the mortgage loans.

      http://nypost.com/2013/07/29/real-housewives-star-teresa-giudice-husband-hit-with-39-count-fraud-indictment/

      • October 20, 2013 at 12:07 AM

        I’m not denying the Giudices were shady. They clearly tried to play games with the IRS. They’re just not that much guiltier than a lot of people. This is a witch hunt.

      • OldNJLady
        October 20, 2013 at 12:27 AM

        I honestly believe that if there were fake W-2 that Teresa had no idea. I don’t think Teresa had any part of the finances prior to the last few years. Juicy was the man. He took care of the money and she took care of the home and kids.
        I know that I read several places when the bankruptcy first came to light that Juicy and his partner would both sign for each other. Recently I read that Juicy’s partner actually had a POA for Teresa.

        • October 20, 2013 at 12:41 AM

          Juicy’s business partner, Joe Mastropole, testified under oath that he had not given Juicy authority to sign his name. It was Juicy who testified that they often signed each other’s name, saying, “That’s the way we did business” as justification for the forging of Mastropole’s name. From the opinion letter by the bankruptcy judge on the civil case filed by Mastropole against Juicy:

          The defense’s arguments hypothesizing Mastropole’s motivation to release the lien on Webster Place (Giudice’s out-of-thin-air contention that it was necessary to “save” the property so that Mastropole could be paid), the “that’s the way we did business” justification for the forging of Mastropole’s name, and emphasis on the absence of a specific reference to the Webster Place mortgage in the plaintiff’s defaulted cure letter of December 13, 2007, are make-weight at best. Similarly, unconvincing are Giudice’s contentions (i) that if he had intended to defraud or injure Mastropole, he would not have paid the $300,000 immediate money in June 2007, and (ii) that engaging in a forgery while he was in litigation with Mastropole would have been foolhardy and quickly discovered. Even if these arguments were to have some merit if a truth-telling, law-respecting party were defending, that is not the present case. Giudice is that party defendant who brazenly “notarized” (by forgery) his own forgery of his business associate’s signature, and otherwise fabricated stories (e.g., the Testa “witnessing” that was not), all with reckless abandon.

          http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20BCO%2020110103227

          In the same case, Juicy stated that he might have signed Teresa’s name:

          His thoroughly cagey statement that he “might” have signed Teresa’s name on the personal guarantee of debt to Mastropole.

          One of my sources told me the following:

          I found TWO power of attorneys filed in 2005. One for Juicy to sign Teresa’s name to docs (filed in Morris County) and the other for Frederick Roughgarden Esq. to sign her name to docs related to the property she owns at 49 Sylvia Ln, Stafford, NJ (in Ocean County), which appears to be their shore house. To me, both signatures on these POAs don’t match her signature shown on some other websites as her “certified signature.” All documents I have found after 2005 with her signature look forged.

          • GPM
            October 20, 2013 at 3:54 PM

            Fame, regarding your statement:

            “One of my sources told me the following:

            I found TWO power of attorneys filed in 2005. One for Juicy to sign Teresa’s name to docs (filed in Morris County) and the other for Frederick Roughgarden Esq. to sign her name to docs related to the property she owns at 49 Sylvia Ln, Stafford, NJ (in Ocean County), which appears to be their shore house. To me, both signatures on these POAs don’t match her signature shown on some other websites as her “certified signature.” All documents I have found after 2005 with her signature look forged.”

            I had heard about these forged POAs awhile back and, candidly, it made me feel like I’d been punched in the stomach I was so sickened by it.

            I assume Tre has forgiven Juicy — and I assume he explained it by saying he just didn’t want to bother her with having to sign documents — but doggone it, that is a serious betrayal of trust in a marriage. It’s a truly terrible way for a man to treat his wife.

            If Juicy just didn’t want to bother Teresa with lots of signatures — or bother himself by having to get them — then why not just bother her ONCE to legitimately sign the POA?

            For him to forge her signature is a whole other thing . . . and none of it good.

    • October 20, 2013 at 2:56 AM

      Hi OldNJlady
      During that time & for years prior bankers & builders were falsifying info to get the loans out. Several big builders &bankerd got busted here in NC.

      As for the taxes ….this is bad but we are due $ the govt never sent my hubby or I are tax info even though we have requested it several times (I had to request mine 12 times) he has requested his 7 thus far. We filed extensions but the poor folks working the phones need more training.

      Juicy totally should have made it an loc I completely agree with you!

    • October 20, 2013 at 2:30 PM

      Just to add a bit to what you noted:
      1. The G’s may have had their returns prepared (and offered them to the mortage lender complete with preparer’s signature) but never filed. They could claim to have filed extensions, but I imagine the IRS has already looked in to that. Most CPA’s and tax preparers have an ID number with the IRS that is used on returns/filings, so the IRS can contact the preparer to get the scoop on whether a 1040 or K-1 was ever prepared/documented. The IRS is typically about two years behind in catching up their paperwork, so if they did not cross check the mortgage submissions with the actual returns until two years later, I would not be surprised.

      2. I wonder if these assets were not purchased by an entity, rather than the Giudices, or are in their parents’ names….After all, Joe Gorga used his parents, and we know he’s learned some of the tricks of the trade from Juicy.

      4. I would have to assume that the Giudice’s would use ineffective assistance of counsel amongst their appelate tools, and it might be successful in some measure..

      6. I agree that there some charges on this sheet that seem out of line. I also believe the prosecutor would be absurd to seek the maximun sentence.

      7. Two of my most stubborn clients when it comes to filing their federal returns are men of the cloth. There are, unfortunately, a lot of otherwise nice and lawful people who drag their feet and/or never file their returns. Confounding, to me, because IRS is actually a very lenient collection agency if you work within their construct.

      Is Joe’s business incorporated, or an LLC? If it is an LLC, I would not be surprised to learn that he was putting his credit on the line. This would make more sense as for as the staircase judgement, as the plaintiff must have named him as a party to the suit, more likely to happen with an LLC. Sometimes, however, a corporate shareholder can be listed on the certificate of insurance, and maybe that’s where the plaintiff got him.
      Also with an LLC, it is standard for the Bankruptcy Trustee to tie personal and business finances, especially when personal money is going toward paying of the settlments. No corporate shield and all that jazz.
      As for KimG and Monica, they are and will remain losers. This did nothing for them in the way of making friends and it did nothing for Monica’s firm. I think it had the opposite effect, that is, I think Monica has made it look really shady to do business in their part of NJ, and if I were an investor, I would hire outside pros to assist me-Not this circle jerk of scammers. Jacko better keep KimG close, though, ’cause Jacko’s financials skeleton are piled ten times as high as the Giudices’.

    • October 20, 2013 at 4:17 PM

      It took the IRS six years to catch up with what I explained above. It was for the tax year 2000 and I got their notice in May of 2006.

    • October 21, 2013 at 2:10 PM

      You are right, Melissa & JoeGorga were both feeding info about the Giudices to Monica Chacon. Monica herself said during season 3 that she has been compiling evidence on Teresa Giudice for Years & she would get what was coming to her. Melissa & Joe had many dealings with the ex business partner who was being represented by MR. & MRS Chacon. We all saw how Mel acted during the 2nd half of the reunion when she was asked about whether she felt bad for saying Joe will be going to jail where he belongs. She said “it didn’t have anything to do with the indictments, cuz I didn’t even know this would be coming out, who knew this would be coming out” She was tripping over her words and basically you could tell that Melissa & Joe were both aware of these charges before anyone else & her comment about Joe deserves to be in jail where people like him belong was in regards to the 39 counts & not about his driver license. It was very obvious to me just by looking at her face.

  4. October 19, 2013 at 9:34 PM

    OldNJLady, ITA about Melissa. The fake crying with no tears (@Reunion) didn’t fool me one bit.

  5. Deb G
    October 19, 2013 at 9:37 PM

    Old Lady NJ, although I don’t understand the whole mess, you really helped explain it. Thank-you for that, but, the best part of your post is the last part. I agree 100% about Kim G, Monica, and Melissa.

    • October 19, 2013 at 10:18 PM

      I hope kim g monica n meho go to jail for causing tax payers of NJ and the court system for time n money and the dirty people like caro n tiny al

      • October 19, 2013 at 11:40 PM

        Oh, celi, I love you. You are the voice of reason and you are way too generous. We will talk tomorrow, as I have just returned from a religious trip. On the down side, I think Joe Giudice did a few things that were not right. Maybe accepted at the time, but, not legal.

        • October 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM

          thank u mamajackie,,
          oh I don’t think he is innocent but I do believe others are far more guilty of setting them up falsly on things.hey I love you tooo,box ill tryn mail today,i keep forgetting its in bacj of car.

          • Detroitrockcity
            October 21, 2013 at 11:27 AM

            Yes,Ms Celi! Something is rotten in Denmark,so to speak?!? Someone else has their hands in the pie!! Ts lawyer said there is 2 sides to every coin?! The whole truth will come out in court!? So we shall see! I fell in my gut that they where misguided

  6. October 19, 2013 at 10:38 PM

    This photo of teresa resembles melissa’s book cover….

    • October 19, 2013 at 11:19 PM

      You mean Melissa’s book cover resembles this pic of Teresa? 😉

      • October 20, 2013 at 4:18 PM

        Exactly! 😉

  7. Trickievee
    October 19, 2013 at 10:45 PM

    OldNJLady, A couple of questions, if I may ask:
    1. Is it possible that tax returns were prepared but NOT filed for the years noted? If so, who is the CPA firm/Accountant responsible for filing?
    2. What is/are Kim G’s reason(s) for taking Teresa and Juicy down?

    • OldNJLady
      October 20, 2013 at 12:37 AM

      If the CPA failed to file taxes they would not be blamed. It is up to each taxpayer to make sure taxes are paid. The back taxes will be the easiest part of this whole mess to straighten out. The IRS wants money and will work out a settlement with Juicy and Teresa.

      Kim G is very good friends with Monica the wife of the attorney that was representing Juicy’s ex partner that was suing Juicy. Monica is also an attorney (I believe) Monica husband never discussed Teresa or Juicy in public but Monica was driven to ruin them. Monica never missed an oppurtunity to speak about Teresa and Juicy’s personal affairs. When Lookers and Kathy first joined RHONJ they were sitting at the same table as Kim G and Monica at the PFS. Next it was Kim and Monica at Lookers Christmas party. Don’t forget the connection between Kim G and Danielle in season 2 when Lookers was feeding information to Danielle.

      Karma did hit Monica and her husband when they were forced to declare bankruptcy a couple of years ago. Monica should have spent more time earning money instead of tracking down information to get Teresa and Juicy.

      • Saddle_River_NJ
        October 21, 2013 at 9:29 AM

        I tend to believe if the truth turns out to be that Tre and Joe had incompetent legal and financial advisors, the aim of the prosecution will change. Suppose the Guidices truly let the accountants and attorneys deal with everything. If malfeasance can be shown on the part of their advisors then the criminal charges should be dropped. The IRS will still have expectations of payment for monies owed. The Guidices will still have to pay, but it will be a different kind of case altogether…

  8. Dixie
    October 19, 2013 at 10:48 PM

    Sometimes I wonder if the feds brought the charges against them to force them to testify against the bank that provided the loans. I have heard that the bank they used has a history of questionable dealings.

  9. October 19, 2013 at 11:09 PM

    There seems to be a lot of blame to go around here. fifty years is just absurd. people don’t get anywhere near that fir violent crimes.

    • October 19, 2013 at 11:20 PM

      hell sad to say even the most vile criminals- child molesters get WAY shorter sentences than 50 years. not even a fraction of 50 years. ( it shouldn’t be like that but it is sad to say)

      • runtheball
        October 19, 2013 at 11:26 PM

        They should save the cost of trial, give Joe a plea bargain, 3 years and require them to make restitution.

        • October 20, 2013 at 11:26 AM

          ba ba ba bingo.

    • sittingcoffin
      October 20, 2013 at 6:07 PM

      Message here: don’t mess with the Fed.

    • pjbottoms
      October 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

      Yeah the sentencing trend is “split sentencing” where the person serves half time in jail and half on probation.

  10. lalala aka i'm with dubba
    October 19, 2013 at 11:23 PM

    Here’s my 2cents:

    Fame is right, there is not enuf unsecured debt to warrant a Chapter 7 however many BK attorneys will start with a 7 and then convert the 7 into a 13. BK may have worked well for them because you are allowed to ‘cramdown’ mortgages on 2nd homes (bring the principal down to the value) as well as erase 2nd mortgages (mortgage used to be secured by the home, if the value is down then the 2nd is no longer secured by the home and is considered unsecured). There are a lot of unscrupulous BK attorneys – run credit? Not neccesarily. I have seen many, many cases where the attorney strings someone along for an extended period of time (and money) only to be told they are not eligible to file. It’s crazy and was much crazier in 2009 – 2011.

    It was ridiculous when the mortgage crisis started happening we were hopeful that they would allow cramdowns on principal residences and not just second homes but they didn’t.

    Another thing – they have some mortgages with the most difficult servicers (i’m being kind) if you are having any kind of issue or need help – ASC and Wachovia are actually Wells Fargo which is by far the most insane servicer of them all. I call them my 7th circle of hell and if I tell you 10 horror stories, 9 will be from Wells (the NY AG just filed suit against them for their terrible behavior). If they knew they were running into trouble and contacted ASC/Wachovia/Wells they could have been told to F off which easily could have sent them into the arms of a BK attorney. Since it says the shore house had a 1st notice of foreclosure and it’s with ASC, it wouldn’t surprise me.

    @oldladynewjersey – the height of the boom was nothing like the old days – no tax returns or any other docs needed for a loan, if the bank requested a 4506T at all, they rarely sent them in. Luckily things are returning to the old ways (though that sucks for the people who needed niche loans such as interest only or no docs).

    It is not that unusual to not file taxes, i have had many clients who haven’t for several years with no reaction from the IRS. Also, for a business – even if you’re incorporated, many times you have to personally guarantee items unless so it’s not unusual that Juicy did that.

    @agirl614 – I’m with you, so tired of people freaking out of this!

    Thanks for this post Fame, it reinforces my initial feeling that these charges sound much worse than they are.

    End of braindump – sorry!

    • OldNJLady
      October 20, 2013 at 12:43 AM

      You are correct about the no doc loans. That would have been an easy way for Juicy to get a loan. That loan was popular with people that had great credit.

    • elemcee
      October 20, 2013 at 12:28 PM

      I never even knew what a 4506T was until my son went to college. We own two homes (one paid for, but had a mortgage, second with a small mortgage now).

    • sittingcoffin
      October 21, 2013 at 3:04 AM

      The youtube video “The Tiny Dot” explains why the IRS has trouble keeping up with all us little folks that fail to properly file.

  11. Rosalie Marie,
    October 20, 2013 at 1:45 AM

    I don’t get it. If they had an agreement with the trust, and they did give up buildings, cars, various others, and they have made continued payments to a business partner, I don’t understand why they are still in trouble? It seems to me that they are working hard to get everything paid but let’s face it, it is a lot of money and it takes time to get money that is owed, together.
    I’m a little baffled to know why Teresa’s name is on most of the loans. Could it be that Joe’s partner is involved with receiving some of those loans and used Teresa’s name As A Front? I seriously think the business partner needs to explain himself as well.
    By the way, I am confused also but I’m not to confused to see that Teresa’s Name was used. Used. Anyway, if we look back on season 2 of RHNJ, we have seen Chris Laurita cheerfully tell Ashley that he is going to buy her a car. He then told Jacqueline that the car is going into her name. Again, it showed Chris and Jacqueline at the dealership and Jacqueline had to be the one to sign for the car. I was baffled by Chris forcing Jacqueline to be the sole buyer of the car. I thought to myself, “Why would he expect her to sign for a loan? He knows she’s on a reality show and it’s not a steady occupation.”
    The answer is quite obvious. Chris Laurita is afraid of something. Perhaps he is doing something illegal and knew that if he gets caught, the FEDS will take all property in his name. There is no doubt, No Doubt, that most of the husbands on RHNJ are dirty. Come on, they have these lavish homes, cars and beach homes, yet they seem to have a lot of time on their hands. Do They Work? Do They Really Have Legitimate Jobs? They certainly don’t dress like professionals. They don’t speak very well. They All Walk and Talk Like Street People. Not one of them is educated.
    Think about Caroline’s father-in-law, think about Al and his many connections and occupations and it’s not hard to consider that perhaps, maybe they are all Family Connected.
    Chris Laurita, President of the garment industry.
    Al Manzo, A caterer who was outted as New Jersey water commissioner. Something in that effect. Wow, that’s like night and day. Also his many connections with the Sheriff’s Dept and other politicians. Even Gov. Chris Christie is friends with Al and that’s why ole Al isn’t in prison. Christie gave Al a chance to resign. By The Way… If you recall the big mob bust that went down just a few years ago,( Obama even called it the biggest mob bust) Al Manzo Was Going To Get Busted Also, but Chris Christie, being a good friend, told Al to resign or he will go to prison. I guess all those Charity Events The Manzo’s Have On Behalf Police and Political friends seem to pay off for the Manzo’s. As long as they raise money for the Sheriff’s office and political friends, they slide right on through ‘Illegal” matters before they even become an issue.
    Richie Wakile, collects money from gas stations? He said so himself. He said all he does is collect money. Remember, he took his son to “HIS” gas station to show his son how to run the business. We All Watched That Exxon Gas Episode, and all we saw was Richie and Son standing outside of the gas station talking about nothing.
    Am I saying something here? Yes. I am saying they are very shady. All Of Them.

    • October 20, 2013 at 4:47 PM

      The Lauritas did do something illegal. Defrauding his company of $55,000,000. He and a brother (I believe) owned a company. They filed bankruptcy which would relieve them of paying creditors. But before they did this, they had a great time spending $55,000,000 so they would be able to claim bankruptcy. Some of the checks were written out to Jac herself. Chris also tampered with evidence. The authorities requested the company’s computers which Chris claimed he didn’t have but they found he actually did have it but he deleted everything on it. I don’t know if he actually took out the hard drive or just deleted it… if he simply deleted a it, it wouldn’t wipe it out of the computer completely. The experts have ways to find it “in the background” if you will.

      The charges have been filed and last I heard, the Lauritas were able to keep getting their depositions postponed. But I don’t know much because, for one, Andy NEVER talked about it. You don’t see many bloggers blogging about it or the rag mags doing stories on it.

      Al Manzo fraudulently took government position. Read the story in the link below if you’d like.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367360/Gov-Chris-Christie-labels-husband-Albert-Manzo-Real-Housewives-New-Jersey-liar-boots-government-position.html

      They’re all crooks in one way or another. Yet Andy only calls out the Guidices. THAT’S what drive me the craziest.

      • October 20, 2013 at 5:04 PM

        I hate Andy.

      • Saddle_River_NJ
        October 21, 2013 at 9:43 AM

        The whole bit about Al getting fired is actually no big deal. Here in North Jersey there are dozens of “Authorities” and “Commissions” with plenty of no-show/little show jobs. Passaic Valley Water Commission. Bergen County Utilities Authority, Northwest Bergen County Utilities Authority, etc. The list goes on and on. The “commissioners” on all these entities tend to be political appointees. Plenty of the folks are double-dipping, ie they have a “regular” job and then serve as a “commissioner” They get pretty lavish perks and pension credits. It’s no big secret. Al getting fired is par for the course. At least once or twice a year some County Executive or Prosecutor makes a big splash by firing a couple. The Bergen County Executive fired all of the NWBUA commissioners last year only for them to appeal and get their “jobs” back. None of this reeks of real scandal – it’s par for the course in North Jersey…

    • October 20, 2013 at 5:29 PM

      IMHO, all of these people are pretty shady when it comes to their “finances and actually jobs”! There is a mentality of “everybody does it” with them to justify what they were doing. The timeframe for Joe Guidice’s business wheeling and dealing was when qualifying for loans/mortgages was very lax and many who were not qualified got qualified for amounts of money they clearly would not be able to pay back. They also put assets into parents, spouses, siblings and childrens’ names with wild abandon (even misspelling some names on purpose). IIRC, I read that Chris Laurita purchased the property they currently reside at from his mother for $1.00! So Guidice was not alone in this type of behavior. Plus I get the impression they all try to stiff “The Man” (paying taxes, etc). So Guidice is going down first but they will all eventually be exposed for the same type of behavior.

      Remember that Joe Guidice’s brother Peter had the largest bankruptcy on record in their county at that time and Joe probably listened to his brother rather than find and PAY for a good bankruptcy attorney. He likely didn’t listen to and lied to the attorney they used to file their petition.

      The point I am trying to make it that you have to find good, qualified estate planners/lawyers, CPA tax preparers, bankruptcy lawyers. Then you either listen to them and do what they feel would be best for your circumstances or you don’t and then you suffer the consequences of not following good legal practices or advice!

      • lalala aka i'm with dubba
        October 20, 2013 at 7:25 PM

        Buying for a $1 is not real, around here deeds are recorded for $1 or $10 not as the actual price as protection since the docs are public.

    • danadoll007
      October 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM

      Interesting. You know, from the beginning I always wondered about all these people. Like you said, a caterer, a garment salesman, a construction guy, a gas station owner??? I know several of each type and NONE of them are anywhere near being millionaires with million dollar homes and all the other luxuries. Just does not add up. SHADE

  12. October 20, 2013 at 2:09 AM

    Here is my pea brain take on it. I don’t get it (generically I do, but don’t want to try and decipher the details), meaning all of the charges and I’m going to wait to see what happens in court.

    Good news is hubby finally bought his father’s day, b-day, anniversary and Christmas presents today. He has been wanting a topper for the truck and new smoker/grill. I told him months ago to go buy them and he said no … too much money. I guess he got a wild hair today and decided the weather was cool smoking towler and to go shop! I’m just glad I don’t have to worry about a christmas present.

    He’s smoking 2 briskets and grilling one chicken tomorrow. Should be interesting as this a wood pellet / electric grill/smoker. I can’t wait to try it.

    • October 20, 2013 at 12:30 PM

      Good for you both @jules I’m doing the same thing. We are painting the house on the outside, pouring concrete to give us a three car driveway and remodeling our master bathroom. This is our Christmas gifts a little early. I’m so excited.

      • mzjulesaz
        October 20, 2013 at 3:46 PM

        OH my goodness you have a lot going on Gloria. It will be so nice when it’s done!

    • Jeannie5233
      October 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM

      So. . . .how was the brisket and the chicken? It sounds delish!!!

      • mzjulesaz
        October 21, 2013 at 1:24 AM

        Only got to sample the brisket as it is for hunting trip this coming weeked, but it was awesome! The chicken was so moist and tender we ate 2 between 5 of us.

        He’s a traditional smoker/bbqer and griller so doing it all in one pellet driven grill/smoker is intriguing to him. Next he wants to make Teresa’s pizza from the grilling book, but wants to try a a take and bake pizza and try it 1st.

        He’s got a new toy and will be cooking alot for a bit 🙂

    • Detroitrockcity
      October 21, 2013 at 12:12 PM

      Omg! Are we married to the same guy?? My husbands bday was the 20ith,what does he want?? To go shoot his gun and smoke some fish?! Gotta love him! We had to take care of his Ma, but he got half his wish,he went skeet shooting,and I took care of Ma;) We ordered pizza, and I baked him a cake? I bought him salmon to smoke!! HAPPY,HAPPY, HAPPY!!! Send us your best smoking recipies!!:) would love something new! You guys are awsome, I think I’ve gotten more educated here than all my time spent in school;) Maybe Messy should enroll in Fame101?? ; ) jk of course ; )

      • Detroitrockcity
        October 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM

        “Not”;)!!!

  13. October 20, 2013 at 8:44 AM

    It is my understanding that the IRS has determined what they believe to be the Giudices income for the years of nonfiling. The IRS does not give any allowance for expenses in their determination. If this income was from rental properties he would also have expenses to offset the rents, so he doesn’t necessarily owe taxes on the amounts stated in the indictment. A lot of taxpayers believe they do not have to file if they lost money in a particular year, not realizing the IRS has docs that can prove income such as 1099’s. I find this a lot in sales of stock, self-employment and rental properties. It is up to the taxpayer to file returns and list any expenses that would offset the income, (ex: purchase price on stock sales, job expenses on misc. income from work performed, expenses of owning a rental prop). Obviously in the Giudice case no 1099’s existed or the IRS would’ve simply filed returns for them, allowing no expenses or deductions and send them a fat tax bill.. The taxpayer is always given the opportunity to file corrected returns to prove they do not owe as much. I see this quite a bit. I have clients who have not filed for years and the IRS does not bother them because it has nothing on file to prove they had income.

    • October 20, 2013 at 4:52 PM

      I wrote about what happened to me above. Long story short. IRS said I owed them $120,000 but it really was less than $5,000 that I ended up owing and paying after a visit to an attorney and accountant.

  14. Gracie
    October 20, 2013 at 8:56 AM

    Looks like the Feds have might have a deal w Chase. Wonder if this acknowledgement of wrong doing regarding industry practices may assist borrowers court cases in any way .

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/19/jpmorgan-said-to-be-discussing-13-billion-settlement-over-mortgage-loans/?_r=0

    • October 20, 2013 at 9:50 AM

      Thanks for the link, Gracie. It’s good to see that JPMorgan Chase will be fined, but their executives also should be going to federal prison for money fraud. From the article linked above:

      Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and JPMorgan’s chief executive, Jamie Dimon, would resolve an array of state and federal investigations into the bank’s sale of troubled mortgage investments. That type of investment, securities typically backed by subprime home loans, was at the heart of the financial crisis.

      While the deal would put those civil cases to rest, it would not save JPMorgan from a parallel criminal inquiry from federal prosecutors in California, the people briefed on the talks said. Under the terms of the preliminary deal, the people said, the bank would also have to assist prosecutors with an investigation into former employees who helped create the mortgage investments.

      The $13 billion deal, which could still fall apart over issues like how much wrongdoing the bank is willing to acknowledge, would represent something of a reckoning for Wall Street, whose outsize risk taking in the mortgage business nearly toppled the economy in 2008.

      From my blog, “Federal Government Throws Its Weight at Individuals Who Dare to Defraud a Bank, Rather Than Prosecuting Bankers for Defrauding Homeowners, Investors and Courts”:

      Mega-banks like JPMorgan Chase have been accused in class action lawsuits of producing false evidence in “tens of thousands” of bankruptcy proceedings. Banks have been found to systematically lie to bankruptcy courts, yet they commit these crimes with impunity.

      No bank executive has spent a day in jail for systematic abuses which, by the way, helped sink the economy and prolong the misery of the foreclosure crisis. If banks get cited for their myriad crimes at all, they buy their way out of trouble with settlements for negligible sums.

      The focus on small fry in financial fraud enforcement serves two purposes. First, it gives the Justice Department a talking point, however cockeyed, to prove their worthiness in prosecuting financial malfeasance… this sends a subtle yet chilling message that the federal government will throw its weight at anyone who dares to defraud a bank, rather than securing justice against banks that defraud customers.

      https://famewhorgas.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/federal-government-throws-its-weight-at-individual-who-dares-to-defraud-a-bank-rather-than-prosecuting-bankers-for-defrauding-homeowners-investors-and-courts/

      • Jack Hole
        October 20, 2013 at 11:12 AM

        And people should not forget that there is Chase family member on the Executive Board of Bravo TV (or NBC?)…

      • sittingcoffin
        October 21, 2013 at 3:22 AM

        Have you researched the history and the bloodlines tied to JPMorgan Chase? Fat chance of anything truly horrible happening to that megaconglomerate. They own just about everything and have strong ties to England (which actually still owns us, America is merely a corporate branch of London, that’s why we have Presidents and not Kings and Queens).

        • October 21, 2013 at 10:15 AM

          I have reason to believe that @sitting. I took a trip this weekend, the Saturday was somewhat of a spiritual journey and Sunday was a historical tour of Acadiana . It appears that whether we were the New France or the New Spain, the British wanted to take over.

        • October 21, 2013 at 1:08 PM

          Yes, sittingcoffin, I’ve been reading about that and following world events related to it since 2008.

  15. Silvana
    October 20, 2013 at 9:01 AM

    Totally off topic here but can I just say that here in Perth Western Australia we have just had our annual Telethon which is 26 hours of live fundraising for the sick children of WA and for Princess Margaret Hospital for children and in just 26 hours the very generous people of Western Australia managed to raise 20.7 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!

    • October 20, 2013 at 12:33 PM

      That is wonderful Silvana, congrats

    • elemcee
      October 20, 2013 at 12:34 PM

      That is amazing, Silvana! Wow.

    • October 20, 2013 at 2:36 PM

      so amazing how generous people are ,jerry lewis telethon here raises 20 to 40 million a yr in a 24 hr on live tv,
      our daughter is a gospel singer ,but when she was 17 now (46) she played the drumrolls and built the excitement in our city and for Roanoke and all around the try area ,such a blessing to reminess when its not foggy.

    • October 20, 2013 at 3:44 PM

      That’s wonderful!

    • Jeannie5233
      October 20, 2013 at 6:37 PM

      I am a Partner of Hope with St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital here in the U.S. I have visited the campus in Memphis, met with researchers, doctors, staff and, most importantly, the patients and their families. It is a life altering experience – one that I was apprehensive about as I thought I would just cry and cry but found to my surprise, it was filled with love, laughter, and hope.

      Congratulations and much admiration to the people of Western Australia – raising that amount of money in 26 hours to help sick children is something that will bring so much hope to those children and their families. How wonderful that is!!!!

      I can’t think of a better thing to do than to help sick children in some way or another – it does the spirit good!!!

      • Silvana
        October 20, 2013 at 6:54 PM

        It’s nice to see that people will dig deep when it comes to children this money goes to buy important hospital equipment and also goes towards research into childhood illness hopefully one day they will be able to find a cure for childhood cancers.

      • October 21, 2013 at 2:03 AM

        St. Jude is such a wonderful hospital. My nephew was born with a few major problems and St Jude Hospital were just wonderful to the whole family and helped my nephew so much. How exciting, Jeannie, to apart of such a wonderful Program for our children.

      • October 21, 2013 at 9:11 AM

        st. jude is a wonderful place to put your energy ms Jeannie,we love helping to give lil ones the gift of hope,life,new beginnings,its never wrong when one bends to help a child.love to all

  16. October 20, 2013 at 10:38 AM

    Thank you Fame, and OldNJLady for the helpful info. I don’t understand all the particulars about corporations, loans, interest, etc etc because my husband is an accountant and takes care of ALL of that for me. Yes, I know, it’s old fashioned and people tell me all the time that I am wrong to not be savvy about our money situation-but c’est la vie. I trust him and so far, he’s never steered us wrong. Do I know EVERYTHING he does? No. Do I trust him? Yes. Do I sign things he tells me to? Yes. One of these days I might be in Tre’s situation (but I doubt it).
    I have a feeling that many things juicy is being crucified for now were common practice back in the “boom” days of housing. I think the banks worked hand in hand with builders to cut corners and make money. Everything sailed along until the bottom fell out-and of course, the banks then tightened everything up.
    I wish the banks, the government and the IRS were taking more of the blame for what happened across America, instead of insisting the little guy gets the squeeze. They ALLOWED all this to happen, then pointed fingers when it crashed. Sad, but typical.
    I hope the Giudices have a GOOD lawyer who can get these charges reduced. IMO, Joe and Tre have the same right as the financial institutions to work the system for their own gain. If what they did was so shady, how did the bank not know it BEFORE they lent them the money? Isn’t that the bank’s job-to protect their institution from bad investments?? And let’s not even get started on the IRS-they’ve been proven to be a pretty shady organization lately themselves.

    • October 20, 2013 at 10:52 AM

      Camm, I agree that their were bankers, mortgage brokers, realtors, appraisers, etc. who encouraged people to lie on their loan applications during the bubble years. The Giudices got multiple mortgages on their properties and were living the high life off the money from those loans because they believed, like many, that real estate only goes up in value. Then the bottom fell out and they couldn’t keep refinancing or getting additional mortgages like they used to, so they decided they wanted a “fresh start.” The problem is, they filed bankruptcy to discharge debt that was all based on lies (fake documents and inflated income to get the loans), and you just can’t do that and expect not to get caught. Knowing that they lied to get the loans, they should have known better. And they should have sucked it up and paid off their debt with their financial windfall from RHONJ. They never should have tried to get their debt discharged when that debt was based on fraudulent loans. It was both greedy and foolish. And when you read their bankruptcy filing, it is quite clear that they lied about Teresa’s income and hid assets.

      “The Giudices are facing much more in terms of sentencing [than Martha Stewart], due in large part to their continued failure to just come clean. I guess they haven’t figured out, in most of these types of things, it’s never the act, but the attempt to cover it up, that gets you in the most trouble. I don’t think that any judge is going to sentence both or either of them to the kind of punishment that the sentencing guidelines allow, but someone’s going to prison. They asked the Bankruptcy Court for forgiveness and then handled the thing all wrong. For their sake – well, for the sake of their girls – I hope they start playing by the damn rules and listening to someone besides those foolish voices in their foolish heads.”

      http://realhousewifeofaiken.com/2013/07/29/joe-and-teresa-giudices-burst-bubble/

      Teresa said in her blog for the episode that was taped just a week before they filed bankruptcy (season 2 episode 12, taped around October 23, 2009, the Giudice’s 10th wedding anniversary):

      As you know, Joe and I filed for bankruptcy protection back in October 2009 primarily because of real estate deals gone bad in a bad economy. We didn’t spend millions of dollars on gold toilets or private planes. We bought buildings, fixed them up, and tried to help other people start their own businesses or be able to afford an apartment. The economy crash trickled down to everyone. We worked so hard for so many years and it was heartbreaking to file, and not something we took lightly. Of course you can’t sit in your bed and just cry all day, so we moved forward, got new jobs, and are working hard once again. The point is to get a fresh start so you can move forward.

      http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/blogs/teresa-giudice/a-fresh-start

      • OldNJLady
        October 20, 2013 at 11:42 AM

        Hey Fame, Not all realtors are bad. Cut me some slack. lol.
        I do agree that there are some realtors, appraisers, closing attorneys and bankers that are lies, cheaters and thefts. I had an entire file on a buy and flip deal that was happening in my area a few years ago complete with names of all involved, agent, banker, attorney, appraiser ans straw buyers that I handed over to the DA.

        • elemcee
          October 20, 2013 at 12:39 PM

          I have a lot of realtor friends, who I a, very close to. They helped me buy my houses but were friends first. They would never do any of the things we are reading about here. There are many, many honest people, who are helping the rest of us. You keep fighting the good fight. Do not get discouraged, we appreciate you!

          • October 20, 2013 at 5:08 PM

            Something really shady is going on in my very own little neighborhood. People are buying houses at very inflated prices and then selling them at a loss a month later. I think they are laundering money that way. Why the f** would you buy a house and then relist it for $200,000 less a month later. It’s weird.

            • OldNJLady
              October 20, 2013 at 9:46 PM

              I would call the white collar crime unit in your city. What happen in my area was homes were being sold at a low price and the same day they were sold for over 100k more. At the time they would record the sales in a local paper. I was talking to another mom at a ball game and she asked me what was going on. From there my brain took over and I investigated it enough to get the information on the main players. I turned the file over to the DA. They had to wait until the foreclosed on the properties but they they arrested all of them. This goes back about 15 years ago.

      • kitty
        October 20, 2013 at 1:24 PM

        Fame, I think Joe went the BK route to avoid paying Mastropole the remainder of damages. Joe Giudice either didn’t understand that the balance was personally guaranteed and he’d have to pay — no matter what — or he disregarded “the law” and played by his own rules — which seems to be his MO. As for using the Housewife money to pay down their debts, the BK was filed months after the first season aired and before the second season started filming, IIRC. So, at that time, they couldn’t have known that it would turn into a lucrative income stream. If there was a bump in salary, they should have notified their counsel and the filing should have been amended — no doubt. Also, I’m curious as to other charges involving the alleged hiding of income because when I’d glanced over the indictments, there were charges involving various LLCs — which, I believe, meeting the standard, a good accountant or BK attorney would have prevented from becoming part of the bankruptcy estate. It’s not as cut/dry as it seems!

        I don’t think we’ll know the extent of the case against the Giudices until it hits the courtroom, so what I think to be red or yellow flags in the case against them may be something or nothing when all is said and done. But the one thing I do think is true is that if Joe had “forged” Mastropole’s name and Mastropole was paid his share…he’d never have accused Giudice of forging his name. He sued because he was cheated — not because his business partner suddenly committed forgery. I could be wrong, but I don’t think that Mastropole was shocked or PO’d by anything other than being cheated out of a large sum of money. Just my opinion.

        • October 20, 2013 at 5:26 PM

          Kitty said: The BK was filed months after the first season aired and before the second season started filming

          Sorry Kitty, but season 2 was taping when the Giudices filed for bankruptcy on October 29, 2009.

          Teresa and Joe celebrated their 10 year anniversary (October 23rd) on season 2 episode 12: Youth Will Be Served:

          http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/season-2/photos/show-shots/episode-12-youth-will-be-served

          http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/season-2/youth-will-be-served

          The episode was taped in October 2009 for season 2 (it aired in July 2010).

          “Monday’s episode of The Real Housewives of New Jersey found them celebrating their 10th anniversary in lavish style. From a helicopter ride over Manhattan, to a private dinner in a ritzy hotel suite, to a massive, yellow diamond ring he gave her, Joe seemingly spared no expense to please his wife, who insisted on a sizable gift. The consequences for not delivering? She’d withhold sex for a month.”

          https://famewhorgas.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/did-teresa-giudice-know-that-they-were-in-financial-distress/

          Teresa’s blog about the episode:

          http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/blogs/teresa-giudice/a-fresh-start.

          • kitty
            October 20, 2013 at 5:41 PM

            Thanks, Fame. I was off by about a week or so.

          • Anonymous
            October 20, 2013 at 6:15 PM

            It was faux. When Jac saw the ring and asked Tre said it was not real.

            • October 20, 2013 at 7:03 PM

              Actually, I believe she said it was “just” a sapphire (yellow and at least 10+ carats without the diamonds) surrounded by diamonds, not a huge diamond center stone. Still a lovely gift for a greedy woman and is still a very expensive ring.

              • Jeannie5233
                October 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

                In this clip, Joe and Chris are discussing that Teresa wants a diamond for her tenth anniversary and says “the money’s not flowing like it used to”

                In this clip and article from Jezebel, Teresa receives a beautiful ring which she describes as a “diamond”.

                http://jezebel.com/5597740/real-housewives-teresas-anniversary-ring-is-fake-right

                Yet, when she appeared on The Veiw on August 2, 2010, Teresa was asked about the ring and she said it was “fake”:

                “While on the View this week Teresa wore what looked like the same yellow diamond ring that Joe gave her. She told the hosts that it was fake and that she loved costume jewelry. So could the whole ring thing just been done for the cameras? Were they both fully aware that they couldn’t afford the real thing and staged the whole fancy ring thing to make their 10th anniversary story more interesting and was it just pulled out of the prop room for the occasion?”

                http://www.babble.com/celebrity/was-teresa-giudices-anniversary-ring-a-fake/

                • October 20, 2013 at 8:25 PM

                  You are right in that she wanted a diamond, but I remember a discussion with a group of ladies about the ring. She mentioned it was a sapphire, and some didn’t realize that they came in quite a variety of colors. To her, it was fake because I wasn’t a diamond. No surprise.
                  Pretty sure about this, 99%, but it was on the show, and it was mentioned just once.

                  • October 20, 2013 at 9:48 PM

                    You are 100% right kimh – here you go from Season 2, Reunion Part 1:

                    “Teresa says (with the help of Caroline) that the yellow diamond ring she got for her anniversary was actually a yellow sapphire cocktail ring and not a diamond. I’m so glad she cleared that up! So it wasn’t a half a million dollar ring, only a few thousand. Ok, then I guess that totally excuses buying jewelry while filing for bankruptcy. See, Teresa isn’t as bad as we all thought.”

                    http://realcityhousewife.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey-season-two-reunion-part-1/

                    • October 20, 2013 at 9:59 PM

                      Good find Jeannie! Tx.
                      The problem is, that ring wasn’t just a few thousand dollars. My guess would be at least 8 to 12 thousand.
                      When I was trying to find the info you did, there was an article about how Teresa supposedly brought it to a tv show she was on, showed the ring and said it was fake. Problem is, it wasn’t the same ring! This was at the same time there were questions about her bankruptcy and spending sprees. She hid all of her good jewelry and didn’t want it included in their bankruptcy. Im not sure if you remember or not, but in their declaration if I remember correctly, the only items listed were for 2 $400. wedding rings. Thieves…
                      Thanks again.

                • my6girls2012
                  October 21, 2013 at 9:06 AM

                  Jeannie, loved the old clips. Reminds me of how fun this show use to be. Teresa is a loving mother with nerves of steal (Milania) LOL And, I absolutely love the bangs; she looks so much younger. Thanks again for the clips! Hope everyone has a great day!!!

      • October 20, 2013 at 5:06 PM

        As I stated in my post towards the top of the page… I bought a house when I was disabled. I was paying mostly cash from the sale of my previous house but was taking out a small mortgage. I was told it would be a no-income-verification loan. When it got down to it, my broker wanted to know if I knew anyone the bank could call who would say I worked there. He assured me they wouldn’t ask any other questions and “the bank knew my story.” They just needed to go through the motion.” First of all, I wouldn’t put ANYONE in that situation. Also, I couldn’t work and had applied for social security. I wasn’t going to throw a monkey wrench in the works. He told me one had nothing to do with the other and the bank wouldn’t do anything with the information. Huh? I refused. He worked it out somehow. Told me he “worked around it.” Wouldn’t doubt if HE found someone who said I worked for them.

      • Sharon
        October 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM

        Unlike the Lauritas. Who did spend other peoples money on airplanes and not fixing up apartments but at least one Laurita seems to have been laying in bed and Tweeting for a couple of years now and hell no!, Jac would never “work”. (Dobbie Gillis comes to mind).

    • October 20, 2013 at 11:28 AM

      Targeting people with different political views for audit? Fucking criminals themselves. Worse than anything Nixon ever did. Dammit.

      • October 21, 2013 at 11:43 AM

        A big AMEN to this.

    • sittingcoffin
      October 21, 2013 at 3:24 AM

      Forging her signature on every document could be an agreed way to keep at least one parent out of jail if anything ever goes down with prison time.

      • Dixie
        October 21, 2013 at 1:56 PM

        In the civil suit the partner had against Joe, didn’t the judge dismiss Teresa from the suit because Joe said, and I think proved, that he forged her name to the documents? Wasn’t this what got Monica Chacon so upset because she thought that Teresa got away with it? If a judge has already found in one instance that Teresa’s name was forged, it isn’t that outrageous to consider that Joe may have forged all of her signatures.

  17. October 20, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    Fame, I agree with you, they also either did not get competent counsel or chose to ignore them.

  18. October 20, 2013 at 11:31 AM

    What if the IRS decided to target gays or Hispanics instead of right wing tea party members? The whole country would be up in arms. Targeting anybody with the power of the IRS is despicable, unconstitutional and a grotesque abuse of power that goes all the way to the White House.

    • October 20, 2013 at 11:36 AM

      It absolutely is a “despicable, unconstitutional and a grotesque abuse of power.” Perfectly worded, as usual, gessie. And I agree that Juicy needs to plea instead of taking the federal charges to trial.

      • October 20, 2013 at 5:10 PM

        In the words of the Godfather, “Be a man!” slap.

      • Sharon
        October 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM

        Can’t help but wonder if Donald Trump will lend them a lawyer as he said he loves Teresa.

    • Rosalie Marie,
      October 20, 2013 at 1:56 PM

      I will not say HIS name but we all know WHO (who as in…white house official) is really behind the IRS scandal. It certainly doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. WHO is getting away with anything and everything.

      • lalala aka i'm with dubba
        October 20, 2013 at 7:31 PM

        Actually I think if you look you’ll see the IRS was targeting a lot of the people creating non profits – as they should – not just TP. The story was blown out of proportion. Politics in these comments is getting scary, gonna take a break.

        • October 21, 2013 at 11:44 AM

          Oh—come on!

        • Dixie
          October 21, 2013 at 2:00 PM

          Sorry, no. Facts show that conservative groups were delayed intentionally based upon their ideology. Other non-profits may have been delayed for other reasons, but only the conservatives were delayed specifically for having a different political ideology. I don’t care where you are on the political spectrum, that is something that should NEVER be allowed in America. People should be going to jail for this.

        • Saddle_River_NJ
          October 21, 2013 at 2:23 PM

          The IRS was specifically looking at *all* organizations irrespective of affiliation that were registering under 501(c)(3). Everybody from the far right to the far left was under scrutiny. I know it’s a lot more sinister to think only conservative groups were being targeted. It really boils down to 501(c)(3) are designed for “educational” purposes. With the Supreme Court ruling on Citizens United v. FEC, funding political ads were being argued as an “educational purpose” There was a rush by Conservative groups (more so than Liberal groups) to set up and fund organizations for specific political reasons. While political advertising may be stretching the definition of “education”, the IRS never denied any applications, they were just scrutinizing *all* that were applying in such a manner since there was like a ten-fold increase and it raised flags.

    • sittingcoffin
      October 21, 2013 at 3:34 AM

      Do you consider the White House to be anything other than a distraction from where power actually lies? Formal governments are used mostly for mind control. This abuse of power stems from the banks and the old bloodlines that believe that they own the planet.

      • October 21, 2013 at 11:46 AM

        Most–republicans and democrats are just puppets.

  19. OldNJLady
    October 20, 2013 at 12:22 PM

    I would love to know who actually typed up the supposedly fake w-2 forms. Seems to me that person would be responsible as anyone else. What happen to them? I don’t see Juicy as capable of finding the correct form and able to type the correct information into each section of the form. I would also like to know if that person was loyal to Juicy or the ex partner. Seems to me that everything was okay with the partnership until the bottom fell out of the economy. How much of a role did the ex partner play in this whole mess? Was it business as usual that they would both sign each others names? Is he not claiming that it never happened to cover his butt?

    • kitty
      October 20, 2013 at 2:30 PM

      I think it’s interesting that Mastropole’s attorney in the 2007 fraud case was Monica Chacon — who then turned up on the Real Housewives as a plot feature — and after the indictments were handed down, wasted no time telling the media that she was in part, responsible for giving info to the Feds. Like I said above, I don’t think Mastropole would have claimed fraud or forgery if Giudice had paid him. I’ll leave it at that. I don’t think it’s as outlandish to think that MAYBE this was SOP for the partnership, but the judge disagrees with my opinion. Joe Giudice must have irked Chacon to the “nth” degree way back in ’07…

      • just this once
        October 20, 2013 at 4:37 PM

        Hi Kitty-If I remember correctly I believe there were accusations that Juicy vandalized their office location…bricks thru a window or something????

        • kitty
          October 20, 2013 at 4:58 PM

          Hi, just. Yep. Monica said slingshot/marbles blew out 7 windows on the day that they filed suit against Joe — but she didn’t see Joe do it. She also said it wasn’t a coincidence, so that’s that? 🙂

      • October 20, 2013 at 4:55 PM

        Mastropole’s attorney was Monica’s husband, William C. Saracino. Mastropole sued the Giudices to prevent them from discharging via bankruptcy the debt they owed him, which they were supposed to pay off by December 1, 2007 per a previous business agreement. In June 2007, Juicy paid him $300,000 of the $586,000 but then stopped paying. Mastropole sued the Giudices because they included the debt owed him in their bankruptcy petition, hoping to have it discharged. Mastropole sued to get his money.

        According to the judge’s opinion letter on the case, which concluded shortly after December 10, 2010, the day the Gorga’s Christmas party was taped, and Monica showed up (she was invited by Kim G with full participation from Melissa and producers):

        Giudice signed the discharge of Mastropole’s mortgage without his knowledge or authorization.

        The Giudice forgery under the circumstances established in this proceeding leads to the clear conclusion that J. Giudice defrauded Mastropole. That conclusion justifies excepting Mastropole’s claim from any bankruptcy discharge of J. Giudice which might eventuate. The defense has argued that since the debt to Mastropole predated the forgery and subsequent refinance transactions for Webster Place, and since that debt was not fraudulently induced, Giudice’s conduct does not fit within the § 523(a)(2)(A) exception to discharge.

        While it is true that the basic business divorce obligation due Mastropole (initially $586,000) was not fraudulently incurred, the events surrounding the settlement agreement were distinctly different. That agreement was to end Giudice-initiated litigation which centered on continued financial connections between the parties. It was to be a global resolution of their differences, and in fact reduced the $586,000 preexisting debt to Mastropole (secured by the blanket mortgages on three East Orange properties) to $560,000. The settlement, embodied in Exhibit P-4, was explicit as to the pay-down ($300,000 immediately), and ultimate payoff (by December 1, 2007). It also was clear that the $260,000 post-June balance was to be secured by both the Webster Place and Glenwood Avenue properties, and was to be personally guaranteed by the Giudices. That agreement was, at a minimum, “an extension, renewal or refinance” of the preexisting debt due Mastropole. Imbedded in the settlement was the representation that Mastropole’s collateral (except for the Clinton Street property specifically cited for release from Mastropole’s lien and out of which the $300,000 was to be paid) would remain intact until the $260,000 final payment was made.

        http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20BCO%2020110103227

        • just this once
          October 20, 2013 at 5:20 PM

          Thanks Fame!

        • kitty
          October 20, 2013 at 5:22 PM

          Fame, Saracino may have co-counseled the 2007 fraud case, but Monica Chacon is widely reported as having represented Mastropole in 2007. I haven’t looked at documents, but I’m going with what I’ve seen in actual news outlets — not just tabloids or blogs. Chacon was with Kim G at the season 3 Posh Fashion Show — wasn’t that filmed before Melissa’s party? She made more than one appearance on RHNJ. So, to my point above, she was involved in production (Kim G connection?) after Mastropole and prior to the Giudice indictments — which I still find interesting.

          • October 20, 2013 at 5:59 PM

            It was Monica herself that mislead everyone when she introduced herself at the Gorga’s Christmas party in December 2010 as “the lawyer suing Teresa.” But all of the official documents show that Monica’s husband, William C. Saracino, is the attorney for Mastropole.

            Monica admitted that she was involved in the federal investigation of the Giudices. She spread rumors around town about the Giudices (along with her friends, Kim G and the Gorgas), which is what infuriated Teresa and why she accosted her at the courthouse on December 10, 2010. I have several blogs about this that I’ve made “private,” but I’ll be making them public again after I finish with a new blog I’m currently working on. You’re right, Kitty: Monica was known by production, Kim G and the Gorgas – all of whom invited her to the Gorga’s Christmas party to upset Teresa.

            • kitty
              October 20, 2013 at 6:18 PM

              Here’s a CNN transcript from August 1st, after the indictments went down — Saracino and Chacon are interviewed and say that “they” represented Mastropole. Chacon even calls Mastropole “my client”. I think I should just stick to Candy Crush on my down time! 🙂

      • EARetired
        October 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM

        Wasn’t the judgement against Juicy for Mastropole for $260,000.? If he has already been paid over $300,000. what is he owed? Something is either npt being relorted properly,or his debt has been paid in full.

        • October 20, 2013 at 9:33 PM

          Mastropole held a mortgage on 17 Webster Place. Joe wanted to refinance the property to get cash. He couldn’t refinance it without paying off the mortgage held by Mastropole, so he forged Mastropole’s name on fake papers that discharged the mortgage. Joe lied to his attorney, Testa, and told him that Mastropole had nothing to do with the property that was being refinanced. With the forged document saying that the $586,000 mortgage on 17 Webster held by Mastropole was paid off, on December 27, 2007, Joe was able to refinance another existing mortgage of $994,565 with Astoria Federal mortgage with a new one for $1,675,000 from Dominion mortgages (it was a cash-out finance that netted Joe $680,435 cash, which he should have used to pay in full his debt to Mastropole, but he didn’t).

          Prior to this December 27, 2007 refinance:

          On June 13, 2007, Mastropole had worked out a business divorce settlement with Joe, and Joe was to pay off his debt to Mastropole, the $586,000 mortgage on 17 Webster, by December 1, 2007; Joe made a one payment of $300,000 in June 2007, and that was it (the settlement was explicit that Joe was to the pay-down the debt with a $300,000 payment immediately and the ultimate payoff by December 1, 2007). Mastropole wanted the rest of his money and sued when he found out that the Giudices filed bankruptcy and were trying to get the debt wiped out. For some reason, when the Giudices filed bankrutpcy they claimed the full amount of $586,000 even though the balance due was only $286,000, which was reduced to $260,000 (“Giudice-initiated litigation resulted in a global resolution of their differences and reduced the $586,000 preexisting debt to Mastropole – secured by the blanket mortgages on three East Orange properties – to $560,000”) and then to $255,000 by the court. Joe lied to and about his attorney, Testa – Testa believed Joe’s lies.

          LETTER OPINION ORIGINAL FILED WITH THE CLERK OF THE COURT:

          Once the privilege was denied (over defense counsel’s objection) Testa described the circumstances of the December 2007 refinance. He stated that J. Giudice came to him in or around early December and said he had to close a refinance deal in that month. Testa indicated that there was insufficient time to arrange the deal. J. Giudice told Testa the deal was already being prepared (presumably by Rinzler). When Testa asked about Mastropole’s involvement, J. Giudice told him that Mastropole had nothing to do with the property that was being refinanced. Testa accepted this statement, and seems to have missed the connection between the June 2007 settlement and the property which was the subject of the December transaction.

          When asked whether he believed he had been misled by his client, Testa answered in the affirmative. On cross-examination the defense elicited a qualifying response to the effect that the attorney was only misled if J. Giudice had not been authorized to sign Mastropole’s name. Yet, Testa said that J. Giudice never told him about the discharge of mortgage – a notable omission by a client who maintained that he had oral authorization to clear the record of Mastropole’s mortgage on Webster Place and who was questioned about Mastropole’s involvement with the property to be refinanced in December 2007.

          Attorney Testa took the witness stand on November 19 and December 14 and 15, 2010. (Witness Rodriguez testified between segments of the Testa testimony.) Testa said he represented the Giudices in the business divorce litigation with Mastropole, which was to have culminated with the June 13, 2007 Settlement Agreement (Exhibit P-4, executed by Testa on behalf of his clients).

          Testa’s initial testimony about the events surrounding the June 13, 2007 Settlement Agreement confirmed that he made some changes in a draft provided by Mastropole’s counsel, and had it retyped with his firm’s “header.” He identified the personal guarantee (Exhibit P-5 required by the settlement), appearing to have been signed by Teresa and J. Giudice and witnessed by Testa. As to his witnessing the Giudices’ signatures, Testa said that J. Giudice signed in his presence, but Teresa’s signature was already on the guarantee when her husband brought it to him. The attorney said he “would not accept that that way.” Testa said he telephoned Teresa. He questioned her about the document, went through it with her, “and made sure that was, in fact, her signature.”

          Testa then acknowledged his involvement as closing attorney for the December 27, 2007 refinance of Webster Place with Wachovia on behalf of the owning-LLC. He further acknowledged receipt of the default and cure letter of December 13, 2007 (Exhibit P-5A), pertaining to the past due December 1 payment of $260,000. At that point, the asserted attorney-client privilege blocked answers to questions connecting the dots between the June 13, 2007 Settlement Agreement, the Mastropole mortgage on Webster Place and the December 27, 2007 refinance. Testa was able to affirm that he had reviewed a title report in conjunction with the December 2007 refinance transaction and that no Mastropole mortgage appeared in the chain of title of Webster Place at that time.

          T. Giudice confirmed that she did not work in her husband’s real estate business or with Mastropole-J. Giudice business ventures. “I was not involved in their business,” as she put it. Recently she became aware that her name was “on” certain real estate. She testified that she never met Testa. She did not recall the guarantee (Exhibit P-5), nor any telephone conversation with Testa about the guarantee. She was vague throughout most of her testimony, and particularly so in this regard. The singular area of T. Giudice’s testimony which was firm and emphatic was as to her purported signature on the personal guarantee. She said she did not sign the document.

          However, the court dismissed the case against Teresa Giudice in its entirely based upon the total absence of evidence connecting her – other than as a spouse – to her husband’s real estate business affairs. Plaintiff, in essence, conceded the dismissal of Teresa from the case after a short discussion of the persisting precedent regarding imputed liability of a business partner.

          http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20BCO%2020110103227

    • October 20, 2013 at 5:14 PM

      Everything was alright with the partnership until the economy collapsed. That guy can save his false piety for somebody who is buyin’ what he is sellin’.

  20. Sharon
    October 20, 2013 at 3:11 PM

    A huge “thank you” goes out to Fame for gathering the legal info for us. I read almost all of it and it is overwhelming. I cannot see that Joe will get “off” in any mild way. In the mean time I do want him and Teresa get a fair deal and not be made examples of. I look forward to reading about the case when it finally gets to court.
    In catching up on years of posts here and in searching other RHONJ sites I have had a catastrophe, my “F” key fell off. And so it goes. hahaha

  21. W
    October 20, 2013 at 3:55 PM

    The Guidices are nothing more than grifters. They are are both going to jail for a long time and they deserve it.

  22. EARetired
    October 20, 2013 at 5:45 PM

    I have not read all the posts but thank you for finally recognizing what I have seen since the begining of this. The feds/IRS habitually over charges people and threatens jail time so that they can collect more then owed
    accept pleas to the charges and/or incarcerate innocent
    people to uphold their
    reputation and their
    so called 90% conviction rate. Most of these “charges” will evaporate before trial and I pray they have better Attorneies now. That bankruptcy should never have been filed as written. I have expressed my opinions elsewhere and been called a variety of names and ignored,told to read the documents and told Teresa and Joe were both going to jail and deserved no mitigation. I believe this entire case will be deemed a waste of the tax payers money. I only wish we could sue the government for the harasment and waste of paper.

    • kitty
      October 20, 2013 at 6:02 PM

      Well said, EARetired. I know that what you’ve said is often very true.

    • OldNJLady
      October 20, 2013 at 6:15 PM

      Thanks for your knowledge and information. I am glad that Fame stated this blog and for all his or her hard work getting the doc together

      • October 21, 2013 at 12:23 AM

        I always assumed Fame was female and now I realize I don’t know.

    • Jeannie5233
      October 20, 2013 at 6:22 PM

      EARetired –

      Welcome here to FW and thank you for your information and opinions.

      Just wanted to let you know I am glad you found this site and let you know you will not be called a variety of names and that your opinion will be respected whether it is agreed with or not. That is the culture Fame has fostered here so please feel free to post.

    • October 21, 2013 at 10:39 AM

      Welcome EA, we are fortunate to have you as a member of our fame ily.

  23. EARetired
    October 20, 2013 at 5:57 PM

    FYI: E A stands for Enrolled Agent. I am now retired,but when working I was the person who would go to the IRS to speak for you when you were in “trouble” with them. Most tax attorneies are also Enrolled Agents as are some CPA’s,but not all. My expertise was in IRS policy and regulations. Notice I did not say Law, because the IRS has no laws.

    • Iris
      October 21, 2013 at 8:17 PM

      Hi EA, what do you think will happen in this case?

  24. October 20, 2013 at 6:23 PM

    Check out these IRS Examples of General Fraud Investigations – Fiscal Year 2013, I think it helps put things in perspective in terms of the crimes and the end result. This one boggled my mind;

    “Founder and Former Chief Executive Officer of Body Armor Company Sentenced on Federal Charges
    On August 15, 2013, in Central Islip, N.Y., David H. Brooks, the former Chief Executive Officer of DHB Industries, Inc., was sentenced to 204 months in prison and five years of supervised release. In addition, he was ordered to pay a $8.7 million fine and to forfeit approximately $65 million. Restitution to the victims of his fraud scheme will be determined at a later date. Brooks was convicted in September 2010 on 14 counts of conspiracy, mail and wire fraud, securities fraud, obstruction of justice, and lying to auditors and subsequently pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the IRS and filing false income tax returns. DHB Industries, Inc. is a supplier of body armor to the U.S. military and law enforcement agencies. According to trial evidence, Brooks and others conspired to loot DHB for personal gain. Brooks concealed his control of a related company in order to funnel more than ten million dollars from DHB to support a thoroughbred horse-racing business and to finance a lavish lifestyle. To cover up his theft, Brooks created, and directed others to create, fictitious documents and misclassified these personal expenses as business expenses on DHB’s books and records. Brooks also falsely inflated inventory at a DHB subsidiary to artificially boost reported profits, and then lied to auditors in an effort to cover up the schemes. Brooks also engaged in accounting fraud schemes designed to increase the net income and profits that DHB reported in its press releases and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) by falsely inflating the value of DHB’s existing inventory, adding non-existent inventory to the company’s books and records, and fraudulently reclassifying expenses. Although Brooks was initially released on bail conditions requiring that he account for and repatriate all foreign assets, he was re-arrested and bail was revoked in January 2010 after the government discovered that Brooks had concealed millions of dollars in accounts in the tax haven principality of San Marino as well as in London, England. ”

    http://www.irs.gov/uac/Examples-of-General-Fraud-Investigations-Fiscal-Year-2013

  25. October 20, 2013 at 7:08 PM

    Within the past week or two, a bank robber in my state (and the neighboring state) faced trial for SEVEN bank robberies. He received 60 MONTHS (five years) in prison, with the chance of early parole. That’s seven bank holdups, across state lines, and he was sentenced to 5 years. Give me a break with the possible jail sentences for the Guidices!!! Unlike this bank robber, the Guidices (while they “robbed” mortgage companies), never put anyone’s life in danger by staging armed robbery SEVEN times.

    • mc
      October 20, 2013 at 7:55 PM

      only 60 months!!! what state are you referring to?

      • Anonymous
        October 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

        Massachusetts / Rhode Island…and I rechecked my facts…sorry…he got six years, and robbed NINE banks, and the FBI was involved.

  26. October 20, 2013 at 8:12 PM

    Sorry..I rechecked my facts. He got six years, and it was actually NINE bank robberies (Massachusetts / Rhode Island), and the FBI was involved.

  27. elle
    October 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM

    Albie to Chris during “Tell All Part 2”:
    “I don’t know if you’ve taken a look around…we don’t usually like people.”

    hahahahahaha

    • October 21, 2013 at 12:25 AM

      Surprisingly, those two made me laugh a couple of times tonight. Even though the conversation was totally fake and a setup for their spinoff.

      • October 21, 2013 at 1:13 AM

        I just liked Maria … I would love to see her as a HW.

        • elle
          October 21, 2013 at 1:48 AM

          The biggest laugh I had was when Rosie made a comment about Maria’s pink dress being ugly…and there she was in a group with Caroline wearing that dress with a Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica top followed by a shiny peplum and Kathy with that age inappropriate, poorly-fitted, bumpy zippered nightmare. Oh, and not to forget that at the same time Rosie was wearing an outfit that looked like Kathy and Richie just happened to drive by her house on their way to the event, saw her wheeling the trash to the curb and told her to jump in the car and come along with them. LOL

          • October 21, 2013 at 6:39 AM

            I love your descriptions! I just watched the video of TB confronting Tre at Kim D.’s jewelry party. He is such a disgusting POS! The way he twists his words around to make him look like some sort of victim is pathetic! Then, to top it off, TSIL has no idea what her stupid azz husband is saying, yet she jumps on the “pity-mobile” and says something about how TB always tries to make up with his sister! To me, TB was a friggin jerk who did not say one thing about wanting to make up with her! Instead he insulted Tre, belittled her and demeaned her on camera. That’s not ‘trying to make up’ with Tre in my book. He even brought up their parents trying to make Tre feel it’s her fault their family is estranged from him! That guy is all twisted and he made a total jackazz of himself this season. Well, let me re-phrase that, the producer’s actually showed some scene’s that make TB look like a little bey-otch, which I’m sure he is. The way he acts makes me happy he had his stumpy butt handed to him by Juicy! The only thing that TB has that is large is his ego and mouth! After watching Richie call Maria a POS and Kathy and Rosie defend him, I’m glad that rumors are swirling that Kathy was demoted! Tre’s family seems to like using Jaq’s word “platform” as a reason why their on the show. I’ll say the “platform” they were standing on was a big iceberg that is almost melted!

          • October 21, 2013 at 9:02 AM

            This is GREATNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Alicia
            October 21, 2013 at 1:06 PM

            LOL. Hilarious. I was thinking the same thing. She’s calling a woman’s dress ugly while she’s looking like a bag lady.

          • October 21, 2013 at 3:52 PM

            LOL! so true, Rosie saying anything about Maria considering how she looks & dresses….STFU Rosie.

      • October 21, 2013 at 9:09 AM

        Sorry-I fast-forward when I see the evil Manzo punks 🙂 I will watch When they show Vito-I love him and his brother is a doll also. Poor Vito ;-(

  28. pjbottoms
    October 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM

    I can not wrap my head around the amount of money in question here. Maybe I’m a bit old fashioned. But if I want something. I work and save my money to buy it. We have 2 mortgages on our house and we make our monthly payments on time. We worked very hard to pay off both car loans. We don’t work to spend money but to save it. This is how I was brought up. I don’t have a glamorous life but I am blessed and I have money saved for retirement and to take care of my parents if need be in the future. I never planned on seeing a dime of my social security fund. The only way I could be a bravo HW is if I became a walking infomercial like Kathy and get free crap to wear on the show. Otherwise I’m pretty happy just being an average Joe (no pun intended) PJ

    • October 21, 2013 at 12:27 AM

      Make sure you have life insurance, health care proxies, living wills, and actual wills. Otherwise, I say, pretty good! Most people do not have their act together as well you and your spouse/partner do.

      • October 21, 2013 at 1:27 AM

        Don’t forget trusts 🙂

        • October 21, 2013 at 8:35 AM

          Lol. Absolutely.

    • October 21, 2013 at 2:31 AM

      Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulder @pj. My husband works so very hard for everything we have. I thank God for him everyday. We have 10 years left to pay on our house and besides that monthly payment (except utilities) we are debt free. When we were first married (very young) we thought you had to have a new car every 3 years, we now refuse to purchase a vehicle unless we can pay cash for it. Like I said above, we are having a lot of work done to the house before next year, but nothing will be financed. I wish Joe and Theresa would have down sized as soon as the market crashed, maybe they would of avoided some of their problems. Great advice agirl and jules. All the peeps on RHOJ are living beyond their means. I just don’t understand going into debt (or lying ) for material things, IT’S NOT WORTH IT.

  29. October 21, 2013 at 2:33 AM

    LOL I must be getting tired. RHONY

  30. NCGal
    October 21, 2013 at 7:17 AM

    Frankly, I don’t believe either Guidice should serve time in any prison. And it’s not because I like them. If the counts are true, then, yes, there should be some sort of retribution. But in cases like this, let’s take the burden off of us taxpayers. Joe Guidice has construction skills -put him to work for however many hours/days/months building/fixing government subsidized housing. Or let him teach his skills to inmates, or kids that might never learn them otherwise in a vocational school or some other kind of program. Surely there are things in schools and public hospitals that need repair. Turn him over to Habitat for Humanity. Same for Teresa, there are things she could do.

    These people have skills – make them use them to better society instead of sticking them in some medium security facility for X number of years.

    I just think in cases like this, prison serves no real purpose except one or two more people in some medium security prison that the taxpayers pay for. And it’s not just the Guidices. I was never a Martha Stewart fan, but I never felt that prison time served any purpose with her, except to make the government look good. She has tremendous skills that could have been used elsewhere, evidenced by the fact that when she was in prison, she DID teach other inmates how to cook, sew etc.

    • October 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM

      Great points.

  31. October 21, 2013 at 10:03 AM

    So last night TB told the truth for the first time EVAH….he told Teresa that he doesn’t care about her. What a shocker! He is so low, I am at a loss for words when I try to describe him. He isn’t even MAN enough to be called a pu**y.(Please excuse my French) He tells Maria to “Get the (bleep) outta here.”I sure hope ‘grown’ men don’t speak to his daughter like this someday! Joe says, “but could you stop digging into my life and my wife’s life?”….IS HE CRAZY????
    You fool, YOU and your pig-of-a-wife brought all this into public, NOT the other way around!
    I believe deep down he hates women.

    • NCGal
      October 21, 2013 at 10:20 AM

      I didn’t watch so I can’t comment on the particular scene, but I do think there is something seriously wrong with him. I think TSIL has manipulated him to the point where there is no going back – he has alienated his sister, his parents, and probably many pre-Melissa friends as well.

      Another part of the problem is that there seems to be no one close enough to him to tell him he’s wrong. The Wakiles are “yes” men and the Marcos are supporting Melissa. Caroline has her own agenda.

      He’ll learn the hard way – when she leaves him for greener pastures – and there is no one he can turn to.

      • October 21, 2013 at 10:39 AM

        I am sure T will take him back.

    • Have2Say
      October 21, 2013 at 10:40 AM

      @ aaacccp…. . I did see that and it was very sad. What was more sad is that Teresa didn’t even seem to be too upset. I think by that point she had become numb. I can only imagine the sorrow and loss she is feeling …. for her brother yet at the hands of her brother (if that makes sense). I can not fathom what would make a sibling do that. I’m glad Teresa has more strength than Russell from RHBH. There is only so much a person can take – and to me Teresa has taken the Bravo paddling for too long. It really did tug at my heart strings.

      • October 21, 2013 at 10:57 AM

        Love your comment, Tre is very strong…thank God! I too think she is over it, she has been hit by the Joey/Melissa train one too many times.

        • Russkaya
          October 21, 2013 at 1:14 PM

          @aaacccp I agree. I think the damage is done. The thing about betrayal in family is you forgive with time but you never forget. That’s the sick part of this show. the permanent damage that Tb and TSIL did to their relationship with tre , juicy and those little girls is lifelong. Apparently he doesn’t care about it. You can never truly put your guard down and be vulnerable again with that person especially the amount of betrayal that they have done. It’s crazy. Now tre doesn’t even engage TSIL when she attacks her or says something hurtful. I noticed that this whole season tre wouldn’t engage katfish or TSIL. At all. She is adapting. Also I noticed the scenes that everyone had to film together you could see the tension. It’s so awkward.

    • Alicia
      October 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

      I agree. I was actually getting pissed off at what that lowlife was saying to his sister, at an event and on tv…gross. And than because she left…there’s the Wakiles and Caroline rolling their eyes and Melissa saying “how many times can he try” WTF did he try? The only thing that he tried to do was hurt and humiliate her. He was verbally abusing his own sister. And she walked away saying “I love you” The whole scene was just disgusting to say the least. It should have been shown during the season.

      • Isolde
        October 21, 2013 at 10:45 PM

        Same feelings here about that whole scene! Then in his talking head interview, TB had the nerve to say that “when Teresa is wrong, she makes a big scene and then leaves”. She didn’t make a scene at all, he did, the idiot. As you said, she quietly walked away saying I love you, and left without really saying goodbye to anyone–just getting her coat and quietly left. He is such an idiot and does his best to hurt her, and then try to convince everyone that it is Teresa’s fault. Just like him saying that he isn’t into the “fame thing”, and wanted to go on the show to get closer to his sister, but then 4 hours into filming, is calling her garbage and starting a brawl at his son’s christening. Those comments were the biggest bunch of bull and lies. I don’t think that TB and TSIL would tell the truth, if their lives depended upon it. It would have been refreshing, if he would have admitted that they were all jealous of her fame and money from the show, and they wanted the same for themselves. The Gorgas and the Wakiles are so full of shit, and think they are fooling everyone. Disgusting.

        The scene with Kathy approaching Teresa at the charity event, asking about her father, also pissed me off big time. Teresa was not filming with them, and they approached her for camera time. I wouldn’t speak to her for calling my parents names on television–no apology would have sufficed ever after doing that for a no good reason. Then Rich has the nerve to call Teresa those names because Kathy came back and said that Teresa brought up her calling her father a coward. I would have stopped her when she approached me and said, please Kathy, we have nothing to say to one another, and walked away. I give Teresa a lot of credit for keeping her cool with the cast, especially after everything they did and said during Season 4 and the reunion I know that I would not have been able to speak to any of them after Season 4, so kudos to Teresa for being a good employee this season. Although, I don’t believe that any of them really have anything to do with one another, but I believe that is smart of Teresa–as none of them can be trusted and I wouldn’t want them around me. They have all done too much damage and hurt her too much, and I believe they all hurt her in her current legal situation, by all their comments on camera last season. I truly hope Teresa realizes that and stays away from all of them.

        • October 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM

          I hope she realizes how destructive they really are as well. Some people you just have to totally stay away from. They have no intention of having a relationship with you. There comes a point in your life where the pain of not having family in your life, hurts less than having them in it and causing all kinds of turmoil. Holidays are very rough at first but then you learn to make new traditions for new chapters of your life.

          TB was very uncomfortable talking to Gia. Sometimes people think children are not paying attention to what is going on in the family. One day I was talking with my mother on the phone and my whole body was trembling. My son was about 15 years old. He was standing in the hall, but I did not see him because my head was down. Not too long after that, my husband and children told me how they saw things with the way the majority of my family treats me, and I knew I needed to break away.

          When you are around toxic people, your body goes through a fight or flight response. The “fight or flight response” is our body’s primitive, automatic, inborn response that prepares the body to “fight” or “flee” from perceived attack, harm or threat to our survival.

          “Is there a cumulative danger from over-activation of our fight or flight response?

          Yes. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a cumulative buildup of stress hormones. If not properly metabolized over time, excessive stress can lead to disorders of our autonomic nervous system (causing headache, irritable bowel syndrome, high blood pressure and the like) and disorders of our hormonal and immune systems (creating susceptibility to infection, chronic fatigue, depression, and autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and allergies.)” http://www.thebodysoulconnection.com/EducationCenter/fight.html

          Once you cut out toxic people from your life, you adjust to the peace that your not use to living with. Your health improves. You have more energy. The longer you live without toxic people, the more you appreciate the choices you make for the sake of all the positive people in your life.

          • October 22, 2013 at 8:45 AM

            ITA agree with this kayswhims – completely! For the last two and a half years of her life, my mother did not have one episode of Shingles. Why? Because that is when we all cut my sister out of our lives.

            Holding onto those toxic relationships will also affect the relationships of those around you who love you and support you. By holding emotions in – the frustration, the anger, the hurt – those people can feel it even you do not let it out or express it. That is how misunderstandings can come about because sometimes those people think it is them causing you to be unhappy and wondering what they did, when in reality, it has nothing to do with them. It is a cycle that has to be broken.

            And I agree – at first it is extremely difficult – but once that transition is made and complete, your own life – your own well-being – becomes better. And the ripple effect can begin to surround those who do care about you.

  32. October 21, 2013 at 10:30 AM

    Who is this ‘momthoughts’ person anyway? Just read a recap on NJ.com and at the end it says:

    “So another season of “Real Housewives of New Jersey” comes to an end. Thanks to everyone for reading these admittedly ridiculous but hopefully entertaining recaps, and for contributing their comments. Thanks also to my Twitter pals @AvaGacser, @MomsThoughts, @MFicano, @JennManzella for seeing me through every episode.”

    She is soooo pro-Melissa,yuck! She just tweeted:

    MomsThoughts™ ‏@MomsThoughts 2h
    @rae_alikaj you’re entitled to your opinion. I do not agree. Melissa is a sweet girl who loves her husband

    • October 21, 2013 at 12:02 PM

      Must be Melissa’s mother.

    • October 21, 2013 at 12:09 PM
      • Anonymous
        October 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM

        Whoever she is-I see (via twitter) she went shopping with Mel’s sister’s best bud ??? I just get so sick of “The World” vs. Teresa! They are the ones that have a pr machine going-not Tre!!!

      • Anonymous
        October 21, 2013 at 12:22 PM

        I see (via Twitter) she is close to Melissa’s sisters’ best friend. I just get sick of “The World” vs. Tre. They are the ones with a pr machine going, not Teresa!!!

        • October 21, 2013 at 12:45 PM

          I know, the Me ho sisters have an army out to attack Teresa not the other way around. They offered people incentives t
          o bash Tresea, like getting them on the show. They were full of it
          .Like Juicey said at the reunion, when does Tresea have time for all the bs.

    • LifeIsGood
      October 21, 2013 at 1:27 PM

      Momsthoughts is connected to one of meho’s sisters-I think Kim. They have/had some internet radio show that kim worked with in some capacity. This momsthought is the one who went batshit when T was selected for CA. They leave nasty comments about teresa all of the time.

  33. October 21, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    Juicy and Chris seemed to be good friends. If they talked about financial issues on the show, they probably talked about it in private. It does feel like an atmosphere where “it is the way things are done”, therefore it is the norm because everybody does it. Both of their wives were also close friends and no doubt spent a great deal of time shopping together. Juicy should have let Teresa know their troubles as soon as possible. I think he was in awe that when she did find out, she made changes and went to work trying to solve the problem. She has worked hard to overcome many things, and I hope that it counts for something.

    • October 21, 2013 at 5:27 PM

      I like this post, Kay! It’s true about Tre being a hard worker. I don’t know if you watched the S5 Reunion pt. 2? It bothered me when Caro was asked her “opinion” (I hate that Caro thinks her opinions are truth!) about the Giudice’s financial problems and she said Teresa ”likes nice things.” When Tre told her that she, too, works her butt off for her nice “things” it seemed to irk Caro. From what I remember Caro didn’t agree with her. That scene never should have been aired with the Federal trial looming over their heads. Caro is a known liar, in my book, she’s not as bad as the Gorga’s but she’s close!

      • October 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM

        No, my daughter and I did not watch the show anymore after Jaq BLK speech. I did not watch the show in the very beginning and part of me wants to see the good times everyone talks about. The other part of me does not want to be sad. My daughter was already watching it and another show and I tried to watch them with her but I got hooked on RHONJ because of the way they were attacking Teresa. I did not watch lost footage either. I thought about it, then changed my mind.

        Caroline knows people like watching Teresa with her children. She thinks people will love watching her with her children. I wanted “The I Love Juicy Show” lol . I know people are attracted to drama, but soaps were mild compared to the stuff they show now. My father loved Nola and Quinton storyline. I agree with the people who deal with enough drama and would like to see something adorable for a change.

        • black enga
          October 21, 2013 at 8:32 PM

          Amen, Kayswhims!!!!

        • embee
          October 21, 2013 at 9:38 PM

          I loved the Nola and Quinton story line on GL! Especially when they left their wedding in a hot air balloon!

          Caroline’s show will never get off the ground. No one wants to watch her children in their “struggles” to find their way to adulthood. I feel sorry for Al! He’ll never be able to retire.

  34. Miami53
    October 21, 2013 at 12:29 PM

    I just watched Lost footage…what a punk TB is…..I feel sorry for Tre….what kind of family does she have between TB, TSIL, Katfish, Chicklets and Gramma. I’m wondering why this wasn’t shown during the season…unbelievable!!! Also, when they were showing the re-union, twice Sushi Lookers had to say the same thing happened to her too. She can never have her own thoughts….always upping herself.

    • October 21, 2013 at 2:03 PM

      Yesterday Tre had dinner and cake for her mom’s b-day and it doesn’t appear that TSIL/TB were there as they were signing books at a gas station and then went out with the Wakilies. So sad!

  35. Honnie Badger
    October 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM

    Oy vey! All this heavy tax/legal stuff is making my head spin. I am going to go back to my wordsmithing right now! To make myself feel better I’m going to open up a dictionary and read a full page. I need to breathe and play with my fun words!

  36. Miami53
    October 21, 2013 at 1:23 PM
    • October 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM

      That pic is too funny.

  37. Russkaya
    October 21, 2013 at 1:23 PM

    Lol. I’m sick of the walkiies. Curious what next season will be like. I’m hoping bravo will drop the tre vs TSIL and TB storyline. The ratings are so bad they have to realize its stupid and people don’t like to watch it. It’s like victim on repeat but neither of them are actual victims. They did it to themselves. Watching the reunion, I think it’s getting to Tb. He was so high.

    • Russkaya
      October 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM

      Oops, I messed up that comment, I was trying to reply to someone earlier in the post and hit the wrong button. Sorry guys. It doesn’t make sense because I didn’t even finish and changed my mind halfway through and hit the wrong button. The point I was trying to make is I think bravo knows TB is unstable and I think the storyline is getting dropped next season. Possibly a lot less of TB and just maybe TSIL role will be downsized big time. Bravo understands people aren’t interested in them and they aren’t making bravo money with the crappy singing and book. The comments on her bravo blog are pretty bad, and she hasn’t posted a blog in weeks. I wonder why… Also the ridiculous book signing at a gas station. I think they’re done.

  38. Miami53
    October 21, 2013 at 1:40 PM

    Sushi Lookers blog is up on Bravo’s site….if anyone wants to post it here. i don’t know how.

  39. Miami53
    October 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM

    It was so short I was able to post it….BS as usual!!!!

    Melissa: “Teresa and I are in a Good Spot.”
    Melissa Gorga
    Melissa shares her thoughts on the end of the season.
    Posted by Melissa Gorga – 1 hour ago17
    Share

    Hi! The end of another season. Boy was it a long one! I just want to say thank you for sticking with us and enduring our ups and downs. We are a family. Although we can sometimes be petty and say stupid things, there is no denying that we love each other. We have good years and bad ones, but at the end of the day we stay united. This show will not go on forever, and when it’s all said and done, we will still be together at our children’s events, through difficult times, through good times, through everything. I know I’ve said Joe and I are unbreakable, well, so is this family.

    Teresa and I are in a good spot and we want to remain that way. Would love for the fans and other people in our lives to see that and stay positive for us. I’m proud of our family. We have managed to move past the issues that were hurting us so much and are still working hard to never go back to that negative place again.

    A special thank you to everyone who has supported Love Italian Style over the past few weeks. Joe and I love meeting you at the book signings and hearing your favorite parts of the book. “Never Let Me Go” is available on iTunes and I’m working on new music now! Keep checking in throughout the year to see what we are up to: melissagorga.com. Follow me on Twitter @MelissaGorga, Facebook, and Instagram.

    Thanks for watching and I wish you all an amazing year.

    Xoxo,
    Melissa

    • Miami53
      October 21, 2013 at 1:47 PM

      I’m wondering if her and TB are going to be asked back…

    • October 21, 2013 at 5:46 PM

      “Would love for the fans and other people in our lives to see that and stay positive for us.” I do believe that this is TSIL’s way of blaming Tre’s fans for her epic book/song failure’s! I see it as TSIL telling Tre to tell her fans to stop bashing her. If the bashing still occurs then TSIL can blame Tre for her failed business attempts! That TSIL is one sneaky, evil witch who knows how to twist crap into making her the victim. It irks me how she “speaks” for both Tre and her relationship, she’s such a control freak! Now, if Tre says something about not knowing what TSIL is talking about them being in a good spot, TSIL can resort to, “See, I told you I try!” I hope this sick, twisted, disgusting, pathetic woman is off the show next season. Please leave, TSIL and take your deranged, lunatic of a husband with you!

  40. October 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM

    1.28.11
    Third Circuit
    Mastropole v. Guidice
    ,
    2011 Bankr.LEXIS 47(Bankr.D.N.J.Jan.3,2011)Husband and wife filed chapter 7cases.
    Husband’s former business partner sued both debtors for a determination of nondischargeability
    of debt arising out of former business relationship. After trial, court ruled that husband’s debt
    to plaintiff was excepted from discharge pursuant to section 523(a)(6), but wife had no liability
    to plaintiff.

    http://fedbar.org/PDFs/Sections/Third-Circuit/Third-Circuit-1-28-11.pdf

  41. October 21, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    Jesus Christ on a crutch, she is working on new music now. What needs to happen to this stupid bitch for her to realize she failed and to give up? What is WRONG with her? He book was beyond a failure, it was a public relations disaster, and she was exposed as a fraud who cannot sing all over the internet. Does she need to get hit with a baseball bat over the head?
    She must be the dumbest bitch on the planet.

    • Miami53
      October 21, 2013 at 3:06 PM

      ROTFLMAO….Gessuewtf, could you please get to the point!!!! LOL

    • elle
    • October 21, 2013 at 3:41 PM

      Common sense and logic are lost to a Destructive Narcissist, she can sing, people have problems hearing her beautiful voice ..lol

    • October 21, 2013 at 4:26 PM

      I honestly think they thought if Teresa can do it (the show/products) we can do it better and literally thought they would come out shining stars including the wallpaper family. If they don’t get it now that they failed and ruined a family. They are dumshits.

      • October 21, 2013 at 4:40 PM

        Bingo

    • October 21, 2013 at 10:04 PM

      Clicking my imaginary “LIKE” button about a hundred times 😉 You rock gessie!!

  42. October 21, 2013 at 4:28 PM

    Fame is this the same Joseph Mastropole, partner of Juicy?

    Joseph Mastropole and Best Choice Realty Associates, Inc., real estate brokers, formerly of Clifton, N.J.

    On July 30, 1996, Joseph Mastropole was found guilty of violations of N.J.S.A. 45:15-17(o) (commingling) and N.J.A.C. 11:5-1.12 (failing to maintain trust account records and ledgers and failing to make quarterly reconciliations of his trust accounts.) The Commission’s audit of Best Choice Realty uncovered extensive and continuous churning of escrowed funds, i.e. disbursing funds which were to have been held in trust on transaction C to a party to transaction B, whose funds were previously disbursed to a party to transaction A, etc. In addition, the audit disclosed over $14,000 in shortages in the escrow accounts. Mastropole’s broker’s license was revoked for ten years. After July 1, 1997, he will be eligible to hold a salesperson’s license. However, he must first requalify for same by completing the salesperson pre-licensure education requirement and passing the state license examination. Mr. Mastropole was also fined $20,000, which must be paid before any license is issued.

    http://slic.njstatelib.org/slic_files/digidocs/905/r287/Fall1996.htm

  43. Jersey Obsessed
    October 21, 2013 at 8:37 PM

    Sorry this comment doesn’t match the article but I just don’t know where else to post this? I am busting at the seems to find out who Maria was on the second RHONJ out takes (or whatever they’re calling them. Caroline seemed truly scared of her and scared FOR everyone else!! Is she connected or what the heck was going on there??

    Fame, can you do some probing and maybe an article on this? I think there is REALLY something there!

    • October 21, 2013 at 9:33 PM

      The only thing I know about her is, she is Kim D assistant.

    • Isolde
      October 21, 2013 at 9:46 PM

      Maria works for Kim D. in her store. I don’t know why she was so bold, but I think Caroline was more worried about the women saying something to her and a brawl starting or bringing over Kim D.or other women attending the party. Perhaps she was more afraid that things would come out on camera if a huge argument broke out. Remember at the finale she was yelling at Penny and Kim D., and rumor had it that both were involved in revealing rumors about Al cheating, and since Maria works for Kim D., an argument might bring Kim D. over to protect her employee. I think in the scene they label her Maria, employee of Kim D. and I saw something on another site about TB yelling at his sister at the Cuff Party at Il Tulipano, which was sometime shortly after the gym confrontation betw.een Teresa and TB.

      As you saw, Caroline encouraged him to go talk to Teresa at the event, and the TSIL and others were saying that TB was making another attempt to reach out to his sister and work things out, when in reality, he was over there attacking Teresa yet again and being very nasty. I guess Maria got upset that Teresa left the event, and went over to TB. I think Caroline was afraid Kim D. would come over to protect Maria, and there was the potential for a bigger confrontation. I am not buying that she just didn’t want a fight to occur, but more afraid that things would be captured on camera that she didn’t want said on air.

      • Sharon
        October 22, 2013 at 12:58 AM

        Caro wanted to leave cuz she’d left her brass knuckles in her other purse.

      • Trickievee
        October 22, 2013 at 2:36 AM

        Isolde, ITA that Caro was more afraid of things being captured and recorded on camera. Maria is obviously fluent in Italian and an associate of KimD. Maria could have brought all of the Manzo/Laurita secrets to the forefront (in Italian of course) and DonCaro would not have understood a word Maria was saying. IMHO Caro was scared of Maria. Caro’s only option was to make a quick retreat. What amazed me was that everyone in the group complied with her hasty (and not so quiet) demands. Once again, IMO, DonCaro’s pied piper departure lacked the dignity that Teresa’S departure examplified.

        • Jersey Obsessed
          October 22, 2013 at 2:53 AM

          Thank you guys for your responses. I’ll have to watch it again….It really felt like she was physically afraid of what was going to happen. And Richie’s dirty filthy mouth is always getting it going!!!

  44. black enga
    October 21, 2013 at 8:40 PM

    Andy Cohen is making headlines, lol. I posted one thread back, I know it was mean but that’s what he gets for being mean.

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